SA dagger RZM7/19 1938 ( Need Help )

[SwedishMike]

Thanks for everyone's help and input so far - it's deeply appreciated. This is such a minefield and as a beginner I'm really starting to get an idea of how easy it is to make a mistake and how invaluable a resource like this is.

As a bit of an opposite(?) - the same seller has this example for sale as well that has a very clean blade:

A, what could be called, near mint condition RZM bladed SA 33 model dagger. The blade retains all its original cross grain finish with the maker’s mark of ‘RZM7/19 1938’. Beautiful plating to all of the fittings, both grip fittings and scabbard fittings. The paint to the scabbard good with some minor losses. Interestingly the losses are revealing black paint underneath, this may have originally been destined to a NSKK dagger. Complete with SA insignia and national eagle.

Given the comment above re getting the Rohm dedication incorrect - is the comment re the black paint potentially being from it having originally been destined to be a NSKK dagger a real possibility?

As before - any feedback and/or education is really appreciated.

Cheers, Mike

[gerrit]

Looking at it closely it seems to be a mix of early and late parts.
Looks like the grip is an early one with nickel silver eagle (having some greenspan on it), the smooth surface and high quality finish scream i'm early.
A RZM grip would have more like a high contour grip.
It looks like it has the plated nut and lower crossguard, but the topguard looks like a nickel silver one and could be original to the grip.

The brown over black is typical for very late production, seen them mostly on 1939+ daggers.
The black is just a base coating and the brown laquer was aplied as the final finish, nothing strange there.

lets see what Larry says about this dagger.

Regards
Ger

[Tim030]

Howdy sir. Just my little bit of observations. First I would recommend adding new thread for each item you post. This helps secure the search history and allow us to learn from each item.

As far as this dagger I see a later rzm original by M7/19 Edward Wüsthof Dreizackwerk, Solingen. Rarity does not count as much on rzm pieces as early maker marked original. If this was pre rzm I believe it would be around a 3 for rarity but again this is an rzm piece.

I believe fittings are original, nickle plated scabbard, crossguard and nut i believe. I do not see marks on nut so no clear evidence it has been removed. The eagle looks nickle to me but sometimes I struggle telling in photos. Magnet helps. Eagle shows missing wood on left side under wing but I don't think it is a pry mark.

Reverse of blade shows good crossgrain I can't see obverse as well. As far as scabbard it looks to me like a repaint probably period. Crossguard to scabbard fit looks tight which I like. They did repurpose these and repaint. I believe it was more common however to be repainted from sa to nskk. But I'm not sure on that.

I do like this particular rzm piece and believe original. Wait for the experts as I am still learning my way around these.

Also put in a new thread and I think you will get more answers.
Tim

[SwedishMike]

Thanks Tim, I took your advice and created a new thread. Wasn't 100% certain about the best way on this forum, should really have asked but every day is a school day

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/sa-di...-dagger-826970

[Larry C]

Hi Mike ...thankyou for starting a new thread as directed by Tim. ...There was more reply content in your previous thread so to avoid confusion on members going back and forth between the same topic..I closed your new thread and gave you this one moving the previous posts to here.
The Discussion can continue

The dagger you posted as noted by Gerrit and Tim is typical Mid period production mix of fittings that someone recently cleaned.

I see no issues with it IMO .

[Larry C]

Due to the photos and without seeing this dagger in hand...this is one of these daggers that needs an in hand inspection and would not jump to purchase it yet.

This example is one of the reasons why I shy away from buying mid to late period SA daggers as some but " Not All " producers tend to use up prexisting inventory to assemble daggers..this one may be one of them...yet it does fit quite well together.

Me personally for myself am not too much of a gambling man would wait and be patient for the sure bet and dig a little deeper in researching it..or keep shopping.
There are plenty of Late SA daggers out in circulation.

Regards Larry

[gerrit]

I would not buy this dagger and take the advise Larry gives you.
1938 is the year we also see the use of aluminium guards, and a mix of materials, but sofar they are normally either plated or aluminium or in some case even nickelsilver.
But a mix of aluminium on top and a plated below is imo not done.
For me its clear to see the aluminium glare below the plated topnut, it has a way different colour finish as the lower guard, which is plated, has.

# Tim imo the scabbard is not a re-used one, as the black paint below the brown does not have the high glossy enamel paint the NSKK have when leaving the plant originally.
I have owned way over 100 SA daggers, and owned at least 5 with the brown over black painted scabbards which next to a factory painted NSKK scabbard have a different paint finish.

Best
Ger

[Tim030]

Thanks for scabbard paint info Ger. Always learning from you and Larry and it is very much appreciated.

Tim