SA Ground Rohm for review

**Larry C** · 07-29-2023, 07:35 PM

Hi Tim..try using indirect lighting and no flash...that will stop the flash back to the camera lense ...which floods out the details that need to be seen

Regards Larry

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-29-2023 07:35 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Tim030** · 07-29-2023, 08:01 PM

Oh yes I will when I get home Larry. That photo was taken over a year ago before you taught me some of your wonderful tricks.

Tim

**Orange55** · 07-29-2023, 09:22 PM

I’ve loved this discussion, you guys have been very helpful and the knowledge that’s here is crazy!

Let me know if there’s anything I can do as far as the markings go but as far as the blade I still have some questions as it seems odd to me that the front side of the blade is cleaned but done much better than the backside.

There seems to be a fair amount of cross grain left on the front, I’ll provide more pics of that and see what you guys think but it still doesn’t make sense to me that if the state of the blade is simply due to post war cleaning and it is in fact not a ground Rohm (i don’t really care if it is or not, I’d be more bummed just because of the cleaning and loss of Cross grain),

but why would the front side of the blade be smooth and shiny with the inscription still being partially dark but the back side would
Be all scratched up? Like if someone cleaned it, why would they have scratched up the back with steel wool, just to the leave the front smooth enough for it to retain cross grain? Is it possible that it could have been ground by the factory and then polished later? Making it seem like it looks the way it does because of the polishing/cleaning? If you look at the pics of the front vs the back, you’ll see what I mean. I’ll provide more pics in a minute to try and show you, I understand it’s hard not having it in your hands…

**Orange55** · 07-29-2023, 09:32 PM

Here’s some more pics, it’s just inexplicable to me why the front and back would be so different…

If you zoom in on those pics of the front of the blade, is that the cross grain? Unless I’m crazy it looks like it still has at least some…

**georgi** · 07-29-2023, 10:02 PM

Hello Orange55. Today I remembered to look at the Lakesidetrader archive and there I found at least 15 examples. When I looked at them I started to see the same details in the different examples. The eagle is correct, but I do not see such a configuration of letters on the motto. On 98% of the examples the logo is damaged although they are slightly scraped.
Look at the examples, compare the logo and the motto and you will form your opinion. I will be glad if you share it with us.
Regards Georgi.

**Tim030** · 07-30-2023, 12:28 AM

Hopefully these photos are better.

Tim

**Larry C** · 07-30-2023, 01:08 AM

by Orange55

' but why would the front side of the blade be smooth and shiny with the inscription still being partially dark but the back side would
Be all scratched up? Like if someone cleaned it, why would they have scratched up the back with steel wool, just to the leave the front smooth enough for it to retain cross grain? Is it possible that it could have been ground by the factory and then polished later? Making it seem like it looks the way it does because of the polishing/cleaning? If you look at the pics of the front vs the back, you’ll see what I mean. I’ll provide more pics in a minute to try and show you, I understand it’s hard not having it in your hands…

Without seeing the reverse side with an inhand inspection..it may be difficult to identify it as a ground Rohm . As of lately ...some enterprisers would just scratch up the reverse side of a blade ...making people think it may be a Gr. Rohm...humping up the value to resell it. ....yet on the otherside of the ball ..it may very well be a Rohm that once was ...and it had been ground down in a back yard job. Not all of these Rohm dagger went back to the producer to get them professionally regrained ....the order was that the whole dedication be removed ...no matter how it was done....just as long as it was removed.

As we have seen with partial Rohm examples removing the name only or a lazy man Rohm that shows traces of the whole inscription...a half hearted attempt to remove the dedication...due to the allegiance of the SA mann to Ernst Rohm.

So without seeing very close up photos of the reverse side ...OR....an inhand inspection ( preferably ) ...it would be hard to say if it is or its not.
The photos provided above ticks all the boxes that would make this a SA em or Rohm dagger....yet again..its the reverse side that needs to be looked at closely to see if there is any traces or depressions left by a regrind...or also if you look down the reverse side of the blade spine looking towards the tip of the dagger...a Rohm regrind..will show a slight wave on the spine.

I cant see that in tha photos and again this needs an in hand inspection to detect that.

Regards Larry

**gerrit** · 08-01-2023, 10:38 AM

by georgi

Hello. I don't believe this dagger is from a veteran's son. I think it has been polished and very well prepared for sale in an attempt to disguise the incorrect details. Take good photos of the eagle, of the SA emblem and turn the photo of the motto over so that the details of the dagger can be more easily determined. This is just my opinion. Wait for an opinion from more experienced forum members.
Georgi.

You are saying here that it can't be a vets dagger because it has been polished and buffed?
If there is one thing for sure is that lots of vets who became collectors swapped parts from daggers in their collection to "create" the best looking one.
I have seen so many army dagger with swapped parts that came from old vets collections.
In the days they just didn't had a clue what parts belonged to specific makers.
That insight came after the publishing of dagger reference books by Wittmann and Johnsson and Rieske & Hessels

Just stick to details please

Ger

**georgi** · 08-01-2023, 05:44 PM

Hi Gerrit. Before writing my opinion I looked at many such examples and none exactly matched this one. The main difference is in the blade. I can't recognize the fittings and crossguards yet, but if the veteran has replaced parts it's a dagger with parts.
After seeing the opinions of other collectors, I realized that I was mistaken.
I still have a lot to learn.
Georgi.

**Larry C** · 08-02-2023, 01:24 PM

Collectibles are like children ...you get to know those little quirks that they have ...even when they think you dont know what they are doing...but you know what they are trying to do over time.

The same with collectibles ...to each their own tiny detail ...over time you will see differences and also what is common.

Beautiful women ?...... Words of wisdom ...get past whats on the outside first ...or with a collectible or both..you may end up holding your " Party member " in your hands and nothing else.