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08-16-2022 11:53 PM
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Welcome JM...the only concern I have is when new collectors purchase first without having it researched first no matter how reputable the person may be,..including Santa Claus. A Dangerous gamble ...sorry to be so blunt..but in this day and age of heightened repros ...the first order would be research first.
Type C Chain assembly according to other Type C chains observed is that this assembly should be nickel plated over steel....Im seeing what appears to be artificial blackening of the whole chain assembly.
Nickel plate does not tarnish like silver ...but dulls.
Someone IMO tried to heighten the appeal of this kind of dagger by adding darkening...as the darkening is not spotty but evenly applied and does not belong on a Type C.
Check out this link regarding the Chain types > Chained SS Study of the 4 Chain types
The scabbard laquer is 100% gone ...showing a thinning Anodized application.
It is possible the scabbard throat was replaced due to limited photos.
The chain is the biggest detraction
Never buy anything what you are not sure of...surely I would not buy a car first and sign for it ..without geting the car fax first. Edged weapons the same thing as well as anything else collectable.
Regards Larry
What books do you have ?
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
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by
Larry C
Welcome JM...the only concern I have is when new collectors purchase first without having it researched first no matter how reputable the person may be,..including Santa Claus. A Dangerous gamble ...sorry to be so blunt..but in this day and age of heightened repros ...the first order would be research first.
Type C Chain assembly according to other Type C chains observed is that this assembly should be nickel plated over steel....Im seeing what appears to be artificial blackening of the whole chain assembly.
Nickel plate does not tarnish like silver ...but dulls.
Someone IMO tried to heighten the appeal of this kind of dagger by adding darkening...as the darkening is not spotty but evenly applied and does not belong on a Type C.
Check out this link regarding the Chain types >
Chained SS Study of the 4 Chain types
The scabbard laquer is 100% gone ...showing a thinning Anodized application.
It is possible the scabbard throat was replaced due to limited photos.
The chain is the biggest detraction
Never buy anything what you are not sure of...surely I would not buy a car first and sign for it ..without geting the car fax first. Edged weapons the same thing as well as anything else collectable.
Regards Larry
What books do you have ?
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Hi Larry,
Sorry for the delay, new job and very hectic. Thanks for your comments. I'm in a quandary as to whether or not to return this dagger.
I have these rederence books:
Collecting The Edged Weapons of the Third Reich / Johnson (complete set)
Third Reich Daggers 1933 - 1945 / Bowman
Exploring the Dress Daggers and Swords of the SS / Whitmann
My understanding is that there were several chain manufacturers and that the Type C, although typically not darkened, could have been depending on the manufacturer. I think the dagger itself is legit. I question the chain and center fitting.
The seller is a well known specialist in daggers, for what it's worth.
Jeff
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I'm with Larry on this one as I find areas that to me are highly suspicious. If I saw something like this at a show and it was "In Hand" some discrete testing and very close observations would be what I would do before any money changed hands. My immediate sense being it's possibly or probably (my immediate 'gut reaction') an enhanced parts piece dagger. Of course this is online, so the next best option are some really, really good closeup images. Best Regards, Fred
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Not my core interest, but I do study patina on blades. I would agree with Larry the "blackening" has been sprayed on, then rubbed back to leave highlight areas shiny.
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Photos can be the clearest and the brightest in detail...but nothing compares to an IN hand inspection....sometimes the touch and feel can give greater answers than just in a photo.
The safe bet is to stay within what has been common with period production ...since Chained SS daggers are highly desirable...opportunists like to take advantage of that desirability ...yet the details I see do match a Type C,,,its just the patina and the chain material that the patina is giving it an appearance that chain looks nickel...if that makes sense.
The center ramp is correct for a Type C ...it all boils down to the patina which is giving false appearance.
Type Cs are known NOT to have patinaed chains ...but if someone recently applied some darkening to the chain ...then it detracts from the value.
Right now its the word of the seller against what is being seen in photos.
Its always good to get a second opinion which in some cases may equal the outcome ...but it doesnt hurt to ask.
Because of that " patina "...and what Type Cs are commonly known for ..always being steel plated >
Type C Chain – Meda Militaria
JR Meda sums up the Type C in the above link.
Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
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While I appreciate like what Larry wrote above with the link and example, I am going to beg to differ.
From what I see the burnishing is factory applied, not something done recently. And the finish does have mottling as well.
While I fully understand that a high percentage of the steel chain, links and center band were not burnished, some were. The burnishing has the correct mottled look to it in the high spots where wear has occurred.
At the link below both front and back of the chain links and the wootons (sp?) knot are burnished and the wear seen to my eyes on this threads opening post is similar to what's seen at the link posted.
Type B2 Chain – Meda Militaria
I don't have a dog in this fight, but to me the subject dagger looks good. Would I purchase it? Since I already have a chained SS, the price would have to be pretty darn good to move on it. That being said
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Thanks all for your comments and opinion. Much appreciated.
Unfortunately, unlike buying a car/truck etc. where you can go to the lot or owner, inspect it, test drive it, review service history, etc., I can/will only purchase militaria from reputable dealers (not from show tables, Facebook groups, etc.). There is no inspection period, other than to purchase and then make the assessment.
I am still discussing with the dealer, and to their credit, they have offered a full refund. I'll make my decision this weekend. I paid top dollar for this high condition set and my gut tells me not to gamble on similar opinions/debate arising if I ever sell it.
Thanks again.
J.
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... do they fit in wear and condition the sheath etc 
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