Thanks Guy! That's a new one for me. It's the 234th in the survey now. 1943 leads the pack at 57. This seems to have the "standard" Mantetsu fittings with the silver colored seppa. We are starting to think Mantetsu had a shop building fittings for many of their gunto. Someone even came up with a tsuba bearing the SMR stamp!
Nick, are these the correct 漢文 kanbun readings for the inscriptions found on 満鐵 Mantetsu blades? I have more or less lifted these from an old thread over at NMB.
Tsukuru Vs Saku
興亜一心 = Kōa isshin.
興亜一心 満鐵作之 = Kōa isshin Mantetsu de kore wo tsukuru.
興亜一心 満鉄謹作 = Tsutsushinde Kōa isshin Mantetsu de tsukuru.
興亜一心 満鐵作 = Kōa isshin Mantetsu de tsukuru.
満鐵鍛造之 = Mantetsu de kitaete kore wo tsukuru.
Corrections below
興亜一心 満鐵作之 = Kōa isshin Mantetsu kore wo tsukuru.
興亜一心 満鉄謹作 = Kōa isshin Mantetsu Kinsaku
興亜一心 満鐵作 = Kōa isshin Mantetsu-Saku
満鐵鍛造之 = Mantetsu kore wo Tanzoh-su.
Nick, does this look right? Chinese on top with Japanese pronunciation beneath.
興亞一心 満鐵作之 Kōa isshin Mantetsu saku kore.
興亞一心 満鐵之を作る Kōa isshin Mantetsu kore wo tsukuru.
興亞一心 満鐵謹作 Kōa isshin Mantetsu kin saku.
興亞一心 満鐵謹作 Kōa isshin Mantetsu kinsaku.
興亞一心 満鐵作 Kōa isshin Mantetsu saku.
興亞一心 満鐵作 Kōa isshin Mantetsu-saku.
満鐵鍛造之 Mantetsu tanzō kore.
満鐵之を鍛造す Mantetsu kore wo tanzō-su.
What's the reason for the upper line's reading, as no educated Japanese will read it like that? A junior high school kid, not yet familiar with reversed grammar in Kanbun might read it thus, but not adults.
Nick,by nick komiya
This investigation in proper terms came from our on-going look into the Mantetsu blade. I came across various English attempts to translate Mantetsu mei for owners, on various web forums and reference books spanning several years. The terms used were often a mixture of terms so I began asking Japanese speakers on our forums to clear this up so I could use proper terms in future discussions as well as in an article we put together for a newsletter. In the article, I put both versions so others who were seeing a mixture of terms could sort it all out, too.
Kiipu has been graciously pinning this down with your expert advice.
Probably to aid we non-Japanese who do not know reverse-grammar. Heck ... "regular" Japanese grammar is hard enough!
(^__^)
-- Guy
In this case, there's only one right way to read them and many wrong ways and they are not compatible alternative readings, so showing the wrong readings will only confuse people further rather than let them figure it out.
A typical example is the "Everlasting fortunes in battle slogan", which Americans read as "Ki-Bu-un Choukyu", but is correctly "Bu-un Choukyu wo Inoru". These are not alternatives, the first is just simply wrong.
This topic has been brought up before, mainly the not so proper translation of Japanese sword signatures that are written in kanbun (漢文) syntax.
About the correct translation of certain sword signatures
This, in my opinion, raises a point that Nick makes in the first paragraph in the post below. Why this use of Japanese words amongst collectors in the first place.
Weaponizing your Language
About two years ago, I started translating the names of every part of the Type 95 Military Sword from kanji to rōmaji (ローマ字) and finally into English. Alas, the rōmaji names did not match what collectors outside of Japan were using. It made me realize that militaria collectors had simply borrowed the words used by Nihontō collectors and applied them to military swords. Then to compound the problem, the Japanese in mid-stream, changed the nomenclature for many of the parts!
Short Development History of Type 95 Gunto, Post #115
Neil (IJASWORDS) at NMB posted a nice summary of some of the facts concerning the Mantetsu blade. Thought I'd copy it here. It is found on this post, if you want to see the original: Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey - Page 27 - Military Swords of Japan - Nihonto Message Board
I've put his comments in italics, and mine are in standard type:
" I'm going to quote your post so that I can comment on each, and readers won't have to jump back and forth on each point. And up front, just a small technical correction - The company's full name was South Manchurain Railway Co. (I don't know the WWII rail lines, so I don't know if there were other "Manchurian" rail companies or if SMR was the only one with the word in the title).
!. Blades were manufactured by the Manchurian Railway Company, from their own puddled steel.
Correct. I once learned what 'puddled steel' was, but don't remember. I'll have to defer to you on that.
2. Some blades were finished at the Nanman factory in China.
This we know for a fact.
3. The mune stamps were, for a better word, tracking numbers or production numbers, stamped in one or other factory in China. And the mei look all cut to a set style .
The reason for the numbering system is not documented anywhere I know of, but I would feel comfortable with that assumption. Completely agree about the mei. Considering the vast number of blades made, the mei is quite uniform, with slight and infrequent variations in cut or kanji style.
4. Finished blades were shipped to Japan for mounting, distribution and sale. This appears confirmed from orders and delivery information and documents.
We know for a fact that in 1944, 500 finished and 5,500 'unfinished' blades were sent to Tokyo. That's 6,000 blades! Average would be 500 blades per month. Ohmura's site said that full production in the early stage was 400 per month, so obviously they were able to increase production as the war went on. We know from Type 95 production charts that there was a huge increase in production in 1944. They went from an average of 30,000 blades per year to 50,000 in '44. So, Mantetsu likely upped their production too. My point is that we don't know for a fact that ALL Mantetsu blades were sent to Tokyo for mounting and sale. We do know that SMR built their own fittings shop, which may explain the MRS gunto. But I couldn't say the percentage of SMR blades that were shipped to Tokyo.
5. There is NO evidence of any Mantetsu/Koa Isshin blades being made in Japan.
Agreed.
6. We know that during the war, blades were in short supply, and the Mantetsu/Koa Isshin solution was an "outsourcing" exercise.
One way to put it. From their 1939 book, Ohmura's translation, SMR saw the need and applied their resources to help the war. Once they demonstrated the high quality of their blades, mainland leadership (Army?) accepted.
So the "light bulb" over the head moment for me was the realization that ALL the blades are made in China, and none in Japan! It would not surprise me either if puddled steel from the Manchurian Electric Furnace was sent to Japanese sword smiths as a substitute for the limited supply of traditional tamahagane.
I seem to recall reading (don't know where) that some smiths wanted the Manchurian steel, but it's a vague memory. I believe the urban-legand that Tokyo was making the Koa Isshin blades came from early mis-translations of the Mantetsu mei. It was often, and still is today, mis-translated to say "Made from Mantetsu steel", which could imply that someone else, not Mantetsu, made the blade from steel obtained from SMR. But it's a complete mistake to read the mei that way. Every one of them says, in slightly varying ways "Mantetsu made this". So, I agree that every Mantetsu blade was made in China, albeit by Japanese industry.
I have examples of Mantetsu swords with Chinese Manchurian Railway Company stamps, as well as Nanman and Dairen stamps from 1938-1944.
So without being too controversial, there are actually blades that are papered MADE IN CHINA.
All this being said, the Mantetsu blades were highly praised and sought after by the Japanese Officers.
Ha! I see the irony of your point! Quite true!"
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