Help with Mei and Tensho Script

[Kiipu]

陸軍東京砲兵工廠にて製造。銘は「� �銃兼正」と切り、その下に村田経芳� ��四字を篆書して、二字に合成した刻 印を打った。
村田刀 Murata-tō

The link above is courtesy of SteveM and below is my reply. Nick & Guy, any thoughts about this?

"I am seeing this kanji character arrangement as follows. The top row kanji characters 1 & 2 (村田) are reading from left to right with the right side of character 1 on top of character 2. The bottom row kanji characters 3 & 4 (経芳) are reading from right to left. See below for a graphic depiction.
12 村田
43 芳経"

For those that would like to learn more about the Baron Murata, see the link below.
刀剣の精神 村田經芳

[Nick Komiya]

With that kind of fuzzy photo, you can make me see almost anything with my imagination. If you said Loch Ness monster, I'd say, yes, possibly I see the long neck and horns. If it is an artificial composite of 4 kanjis into 2, it becomes all the more critical to see that all necessary strokes are there for the stroke count.

If that stamp is a known stamp, there must be clear photos elsewhere to make a comparison.

[bangbangsan]

Thomas
Thanks for decode these 篆字。I think they were maybe simplified as 木田芳系 or 木田芳圣 instead of full characters 村田芳経。

[ghp95134]

Thomas
Thanks for decode these 篆字。I think they were maybe simplified as 木田芳系 or 木田芳圣 instead of full characters 村田芳経。

Thanks Bangbangsan. I definitely see the 村 and 芳; but I'll be hanged if I see 田 or the rest of the kanji following the 芳


BUT .... what about the actual mei? Who can decipher that third kanji that looks like a 不 with the third stroke written horizontally at the base .... one of the guys at that other web site said it looked like 元 ... weird stroke-order in either case. And no google hits for either one.
小銃 不定
小銃 元定

I'm starting to take Nick's side ..... I'm seeing Nessie!


This is a fun and enthralling group effort and I'm getting lots of enjoyment (and frustration) from it.


-- Guy

[bangbangsan]

木（寸）田 芳 （系）圣 ，simplified the 村 to 木，経 to 圣。

[ghp95134]

木（寸）田 芳 （系）圣 ，simplified the 村 to 木，経 to 圣。

Thanks Bangbangsan. I see how you've highlighted the modified kanji and follow you're thought. Geez, I just don't get it. I mean, I do see it now, but why do all that, then sign the sword with another signature?

Cheers,
-- Guy

[Kiipu]

I just learned Murata actually used an older version of 経 in his first name.
經芳

[Bruce Pennington]

I just re-read Ohmura's page on Murata-to and he mentions an "ancient script" 2-stamp on a sword of Murata's making. He also said:

"In addition, the Mei of "Kanemasa" or "Murata Tsuneyoshi " was cut by the sword which Tsuneyoshi Murata forge himself." So appearantly, Murata was using the name Kanemasa on his swords.