Need help identifying these swords please!

[shaneOrelics]

Hey everyone I could use some good ole knowledge from the experts and long time collectors. My grandfather recently passed and left more items then Ill ever know to do with. Some of them ww2 relics and some older items. I dont know what these are I've been told by one person that these are cheap replicas and worth approx 200$. But when I posted on Reddit in the swords and also under the katanas not one person said they were replicas. I know I can trust the more seasoned sword collectors on here that can possibly give me some valuabe information about these swords. I held onto the swords after the man told me they were only worth about 200$ because I didnt understand why he was wanting to purchase them so bad if they were just cheap replicas. Anyways I just want to gather as much information as I can about these. If there actual samurai swords or hold any type of value I dont need any prices just if there something I should find an appraiser for would be good to know. Just doesnt make since for my grandfather who was a ww2 memorabilia dealer and collector along with various other items to have some cheap replica swords stashed away in the spot they were found. Anyways thanks in advance for any light you can shed on these swords! Hope everyone had a good christmas and has a wonderful New Year!

[ghp95134]

THESE ARE NOT CHEAP REPLICAS!!!
The blades seem to be outfitted as a daisho -- matched pair to be worn by a samurai. Not saying it was owned by samurai -- it's just the furniture. The scabbards have a nice lacquer job with a reinforced (?) ribbed area near the throat. You'd pay big bucks to have a new set of scabbards made with this lacquer job.

The images are not too clear -- and I'm not knowledgeable with regard to guessing age -- but the tangs do not look too old. Nothing on the tangs to read.

The paper is a "Torokusho" license to possess/carry the sword within Japan -- it does not authenticate the smith or value. It was issued by a Gifu Prefecture Board of Education member and describes the blade as a wakizashi, length 45.5 cm, curvature 0.8cm, has 1 retention-pin hole, and "nothing" [signatures/engravings]. I cannot read the Showa-era stamp so cannot tell you when this blade was registered.

When you sell/trade the sword in Japan, the torokusho goes with the sword.

Cheers,
-- Guy

[ghp95134]

The Japanese Sword and Gun Law went into effect in 1958 -- Showa 33. Your registration has a faint date stamp that is 昭和〇〇八年 "Showa 〇8th Year." The only years after Showa 33 that end in 8 are the following:

昭和三十八 Showa 38 = 1963
昭和四十八 Showa 48 = 1973
昭和五十八 Showa 58 = 1983

So, the license is most likely dated 1963, 1973, or 1983. Can you get a better photo of this area so that I can take a better stab at the issue date?


Cheers,
-- Guy

[shaneOrelics]

yes one second taking picture now

[shaneOrelics]

Hey everyone I could use some good ole knowledge from the experts and long time collectors. My grandfather recently passed and left more items then Ill ever know to do with. Some of them ww2 relics and some older items. I dont know what these are I've been told by one person that these are cheap replicas and worth approx 200$. But when I posted on Reddit in the swords and also under the katanas not one person said they were replicas. I know I can trust the more seasoned sword collectors on here that can possibly give me some valuabe information about these swords. I held onto the swords after the man told me they were only worth about 200$ because I didnt understand why he was wanting to purchase them so bad if they were just cheap replicas. Anyways I just want to gather as much information as I can about these. If there actual samurai swords or hold any type of value I dont need any prices just if there something I should find an appraiser for would be good to know. Just doesnt make since for my grandfather who was a ww2 memorabilia dealer and collector along with various other items to have some cheap replica swords stashed away in the spot they were found. Anyways thanks in advance for any light you can shed on these swords! Hope everyone had a good christmas and has a wonderful New Year!

[shaneOrelics]

So the rust is a black underneath and dark brown with some very recent red spots from recent humidity. I have had one person that I was referred to as a sword expert tell me that these are from the edo period the short sword from bizen school and the longer from mina school. But I am here to hear all inputs on these swords I cant figure out how to rotate these pictures and im very sorry hopefully these are some better shots of these beautiful blades. There is some japenese writing on all those brass pieces but I cannot make out what it says very hard. If I can figure out what the writing says maybe it will shed even more light on these blades. I love learning the history on stuff like this. Its the story behind items like these that is fascinating. Thanks for any input and help. It is greatly appreciated

[shaneOrelics]

[ghp95134]

Thanks -- that's a cleaner shot, but still very faint.

I think [THINK!] the number looks like
卅八 = 38

卅 is an archaic way of writing 30; it comprises three tens 十 linked together: 十十十 .... 30. That, plus the 八 gives us 38.

If I am correct, then the stamp would be:
昭和卅八 Showa 38 = 1963

The writing on the brass pieces (seppa ... washers) merely identify to which sword they belong. A matched set like this is called 大小 Daisho, meaning Large 大 and Small 小. If I am seeing these scratches correctly they say:
大小大 Daisho-LARGE
大小小 Daisho - SMALL

This was done because each piece-part was done by different craftsmen; in the Showa-era they marked blades, guards, washers, etc. (usually with numbers) so that if some part got loose, the craftsman would know to which blade/furniture the part belongs.

Cheers,
-- Guy

[Bruce Pennington]

As to value - I'm a WWII sword guy and don't closely follow the older swords, but this set is at least $2,000 and could run up to $10,000 depending upon the market you sell it in, and if you get the blades officially evaluated by a Shinsa team. Shinsa in Japan is a complicated process, if you want to go that way, and could run $700 - 1,000 in total, or you can find out when they hold their evaluations in the US (assuming you are in the States).

If you are interested, you can find out more with an easy google search. Here is a FAQ page: Shinsa FAQ — NTHK_America