WW2 Japanese Army Sword?

**tony75** · 09-26-2023, 10:50 AM

Hello

What are your thoughts on this sword?

* The blade is 29 inches long
* The blade has a slight curve at the end. I have never seen this before?
* I read somewhere where some of these swords had some French influence?
* Unfortunately, the sword is not in good condition

Thank you.
Tony

**Bruce Pennington** · 09-26-2023, 01:41 PM

I'll say up front that I don't study the Type 8/19's in depth. The last photo of the backstrap actually looks quite good. The rest, however, doesn't. But that could be due to lack of clarity in the other photos. I could use a good, clear shot of the sides of the handles, where the sakura (cherry blossoms) are on the 'ears' of the backstrap.

There are fake Type 8/19 swords out there, unfortunately. On the other hand, there was a huge variation of work from shop to shop in the 8/19 world at the time. So, this could be one that was simply on the lower end of the scale of craftsmanship. The floral work on the handguard and the shape of the sakura on the sides of the handle are what I'm refering to. But maybe with clear shots, we could update that?

The only country I recall being mentioned is Germany at the the beginning of these. Solengen produced some of the first swords for Japan of this model.

As to the downward curve of that tip - never seen that before. Also, these blades were chromed with an artificial hamon (temper line). Any sign of that?

**tony75** · 09-27-2023, 10:02 AM

Hi Bruce
Thank you for the help and Info
No temper liner that I can see.

Here are more pics.

This is the info I found from the Sword forum. ( I was never invovled in the discussion)

I am the owner of a Japanese parade sabre with a French style blade but I am unable to determine the different designations for a sword of this style and the more common shin gunto blade.

The only info I could discovered says that these swords are referred to as "Murata-to" and closely resembled French and American swords of the time, with a wrap-around hand guard (also known as a D-Guard) and chrome plated scabbard (saya), the steel scabbard is said to have been introduced around 1900. (Mine is chrome painted.) The one hand grip saber did not adapt itself to the form of the tang of a Japanese sword and the way the Japanese used swords, but the hilt (Tsuka) for the new saber was changed by the both-hands grip. It was this mounting (Koshirae) alteration that was added to a Japanese sword.

You frequently find the more common style (photo with the red background) and much less the other sword.

Is there a different designation? Are you able to date the sword from its design features?

I have actually seen that site before but there still seems to be a query as to the possible age of the sword I have and when the decision was made to move from the French blades to the more traditional shape, although, the Sino-Japanese and Russo-Japanese Wars would have been instrumental.

I have attached the only marks evident on the blade - I have not removed the handle - I don't know how and I suspect it may offer little in this case. I hope this may help.

I appreciate your assistance. I also have an Type 32, Otsu Sword made between 1910 and 1912, according to Francis C. Allan's work, and a type 98 Infantry sword. Research indicates made in northern Japan in approx. 1936-37 but not made into a sword until 1942-43. Almost certainly manufactured as part of the Tokyo Hohei Kosho or arsenals. Its authenticity isn't questioned as my father retrieved it from the battlefield.

Thanx for the added info. Every little bit helps, but I still can't seem to determine whether my sword is one of the very early KyoGunto made with the French supplied blades or a later version of the same. Did they continue to produce this version after the adoption of the more traditional blade?

Is there any way to determine this

**Bruce Pennington** · 09-27-2023, 01:32 PM

Tony,
Thanks for the added photos. I'm happy with the handle, now. The blade is an odd one. I did some reading on these in both the Fuller and Dawson books. One of them had an example of a curved Russian blade in a Type 8/19 handle! And both had custom gunto examples. So, it's possible this is a custom-built Type 8/19.

The Fuller book talks of the 1875 introduction of this style sword and states they had French and American influence in design. Dawson only discusses German examples of these. Combining the two books, I'd say the "design" might have been French/American, and the manufacture was German. Dawson states that prior to their loss to Germany, France had been advising Japan. After the German victory (don't remember the war), Japan replaced French advisors with German ones. This happened around the Meiji Restoration period, and about when the 1875 sword style was adopted. So, the waters are muddy concerning which country can claim to be behind the design.

The term "Kyu gunto" is also a bit of a mish-mash in the Collector World. Literally, it means "New Army Sword" and was used to describe the 1875 models. Many collectors, today, use the term for the 8/19's with tempered, fighting blades. The 8/19s with non-tempered, chromed, show-blades we call "parade" or "dress" swords. I used to think, until today's reading, that the fighting blades were all in distinctively different handles from the dress swords, but I found an example in Fuller's book of a fighting sword with a stock "dress sword" style handle.