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M34 cap?

Article about: A friend sent me this pictures and asking my opinion. I know nothing of these caps, looking for insight. Thanks, Marty

  1. #11

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    We'll, that almost worked, note the second picture. Bottom left corner is a GNR officer hat with number 24 is the first pattern fregio. Note the double diagonal band on the fascio, this is not found on other mvsn fregio.

  2. #12

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    The color pictures are earlier combat fascist units. The stars and crowns at the top of the fregio seem to go away in the RSI period

  3. #13

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    Is the consensus that the cap is real or is it still in doubt?

    Marty
    Fortune favors the brave 644th td

  4. #14

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    I will upload a few more picks of the hat. The last 2 show it next to a ww2 doctors uniformM34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?

  5. #15

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    Never said this badge does not exist, i said it pretend to be one early RSI one, dont know wich one, i have not check!
    So as the "Heinz Kuchler" book said its a 1st pattern GNR for ex MVSN men, the main difference between the pre 43 MVSN badge its the missing star i noticed, but about the double diagonal band on the fascio, to be honest ive seen it on pre 43 MVSN badge too, for fez and even visor cap, i'll search some pics!

    Btw what was not ok for me, its the poor looking embroidery of the badge itself, and from that pictures i still dont like it to be honest, also this oxidation on the canuttiglia thread does not looks genuine!
    Even on that times the quality of canuttiglia embroidery was still super high, and that officer could have had the best of the market!
    Hat was made with italian gabardine wool indeed, and so?
    Such a poor quality bustina too for such high officer..
    To judge those rare and complicated hats by pictures its always impossibile i know, but still have not a good feeling about it, just my opinion as well!

    Nice discussion btw!

  6. #16

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    I am enjoying the learning experience.

    Marty
    Fortune favors the brave 644th td

  7. #17

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    It sounds like the main argument for the hat not being period is quality which is ultimately subjective. Here are more reasons why I think the hat is period
    1. It is a hand tailored hat made of period grey green uniform cloth, there are no stamps or tags in the lining
    2. The lining is made of fine uniform lining and shows appropriate wear and sweat stains
    3. The fregio is of the exact first pattern RSI, no one would copy this if they did not know what it should look like
    4. It is not prudent to judge what the quality of fregio would have looked like 75 years ago based on what it looks like now with some missing wire links, tarnish and corrosion.
    5. The green tarnish is normal for copper and brass that has aged. This would be hard to reproduce without damaging the hat. It took the statue of liberty 30 years to turn green (pure copper) when it was fully exposed to the elements. This tends toward proof of significant age. Also why age the fregio when a clean example would not look out of place and be more desirable?

    6. Most Italian bullion does not tarnish like this, but I have an example in my collection of an alpino eagle that has. I will show a picture

  8. #18

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    7. The hat was in the USA which tends toward authenticity. Many Items were brought here after the war and no hats like this are produced here ( because they are not German or American). The hat in not really valuable although it is rare.

    8. The bullion fregio is hand made as is the hat. There is some variation in hand made Italian bullion. I have 20 alpini hats and the hat eagles all have noticeable variation.
    9. I have noticed 3 interesting variations in the fregio which personalizes the hat. The roman numeral V, the red circle and if you look closely the bullion around the circle is not a circle, but a horn. The makes me think that the officer may be formerly Bersaglieri. The Bersaglieri had red flames and a horn in there hat badges. The roman numeral V is also unusual as most Italian regiments noted hat badges with Arabic numerals. According to my research the Italians noted military zones with roman numerals, also WW1 arditi units and some battalions in Africa including fascist assault battalions and colonial units. Many Italians in the RSI joined the army to avoid prison camp with the germans, the officer may not have been fascist, but could also have been fascist and Bersaglieri. It was common in the RSI period to wear hats or parts of uniforms that designated their former units

  9. #19

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    Here are some pictures. I know I am the only one now that can examine the hat in person, but they are representative. In person the quality is apparent.M34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?M34 cap?

  10. #20

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    Found a link to a similar hat. No rank on this one. Hand embroidered fregio shows double diagonal band. The material and lining looks lower quality then mine. Again, no tags, tailor made. Berretto da Ufficiale della G.N.R.

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