SA Variation

[yellow12]

Hello,

here i whant show my new SA

Is a two piece construction with curious prongs
made from brass

Opinions please .

[Ben Evans]

Hi Markus, a curious make up and a first for me, good find

[aechols83]

Hello Markus,

This is, in my opinion, a very rare SA buckle you have shown. I'm absolutely certain David will chime in here when he sees this thread and I believe he may even hold this exact same SA or a very similar brass variant.

As discussed in a couple other threads which I cannot reference at the moment, features of this buckle have been attributed to Friedrich Keller, Oberstein a. d. Nahe. I believe David still holds a very rare nickel silver SS by Keller displaying this same small opening in the pin shroud seam. If memory serves, I think David and perhaps others speculated that this opening could have been to facilitate oiling of the pin assembly. Some time ago I saw (and unfortunately missed out on...) a nickel 1-piece SA with this exact same "stubby" winged eagle design and pin shroud opening. This one-piece I saw also had the same interesting, if slightly rough, narrow catch that is found on the Keller SS.

Also interesting to me in regards to the example you have shown is that while this very specific roundel design is strongly linked to Keller, the catch and dimple on the reverse make me think of Paulmann & Crone construction. For comparison, I have attached a merged image of the reverse of your buckle alongside my PuC marked SA with these same characteristics. Great find!

Best,
Adam

[yellow12]

Hello Adam ,

thanks for your opinions . I don't see that is similar to the P u.C .

There are big distinctions between . Circlestamp and ears ............and also prongs .

And more pictures about :

[lach470]

Great looking buckle Markus! Congrats on this recent pickup!
Rob

[aechols83]

Hello Markus,

Yes, don't get me wrong... In my opinion your buckle is not by Paulmann & Crone as the roundel and pin shroud opening would both seem to point to Keller. Also, as you say, the ears and prongs do not match the PuC SA that I have shown. David or someone else may be able to provide comparative images of Keller prongs. My point here is simply that it is interesting that the reverse dimple and catch on your buckle resemble the construction seen on my PuC marked example. Upon closer inspection it does seem that the dimple on my buckle is not as sharply defined as on your's. It also appears that the solder points are perhaps spaced slightly wider on your buckle whereas they seem to be just within and on the periphery of the dimple with my example.

Best,
Adam

[yellow12]

Hello Markus,

Yes, don't get me wrong... In my opinion your buckle is not by Paulmann & Crone as the roundel and pin shroud opening would both seem to point to Keller. Also, as you say, the ears and prongs do not match the PuC SA that I have shown. David or someone else may be able to provide comparative images of Keller prongs. My point here is simply that it is interesting that the reverse dimple and catch on your buckle resemble the construction seen on my PuC marked example. Upon closer inspection it does seem that the dimple on my buckle is not as sharply defined as on your's. It also appears that the solder points are perhaps spaced slightly wider on your buckle whereas they seem to be just within and on the periphery of the dimple with my example.

Best,
Adam

Dear Adam ,

yes it's right .

In my opinion it is a Keller .

[David North]

A good SA buckle that for myself at least and for the moment, shows itself as a period hybrid.

Just in case some collectors are unaware, there is well documented series of one piece buckles that have two very unusual features. One is a very amateur, crude and strange looking bar catch that is brazed on and two is a pin shroud that has a linear petal shape opening.

These buckles have been identified as probably from Friedrich Keller and attached are images of a DJ buckle which displays the two above detailed features, however the bonus of an identifying RZM UE mark.

Toward the SA buckle in question, it is of course two piece. The roundel however is very distinct, although from experience, there are other SA roundels which are jolly similar, however not exact. Similar roundels are those with an extended beak eagle, a different style of laurel leaf spray and a slightly irregular swastika.

Attached are images of a one piece SA which I think has the same roundel design as that of the one that started the thread and which has the two tell tale signs of being Keller.

I have never seen a two piece buckle which can be confirmed as from Keller.

Having said that, the buckle that Markus has shown has a roundel known from a Keller SA and a pin shroud and claw arrangement, again known from Keller. Perhaps the brass box is also by Keller, however I think that there is a higher probability that Keller supplied the roundel and the pin shroud/claws and that the brass box and the pin (Keller pins tend to have a high dome configuration) are from someone else, as would have been the final assembly.

Only a probability of course and I think that the brass box is worthy of further investigation. I think that Adam may hold the key here.

Regards,

David

[David North]

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[David North]

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