Help Needed in Identifying Decals on Helmets

[Dav]

I have recently decided that I should get around to learning more about the various manufacturers of helmets, in particular Heer decals, a topic that has always confused me. I decided to use germanhelmetvault, in particular, this page here, to learn about the various types. The issue, however, is that no matter how much I study these various varieties...they all look identical to me. I have also searched these forums to try and find a guide but couldn't find one.

I decided to focus on the big four, Huber Jordan u. Koerner, Pocher, ET, and Quist. The only one I can successfully identify out of the the four is the Quist "big foot" one as it is the only one where all 3 claws of the eagle overlap the top of the swastika.

The other 3, however, especially the supposed "thin wing" Huber Jordan u. Koerner decal and the Pocher decal - look identical. I don't see the wings being any "thinner" shorter, or different in any way.

First is the Ju.K, second is the Pocher...I just can't tell at all.


Pocher:


I have tried drawing lines on the images to work out the differences, but to me, they both like identical- same goes for the ET decal...I feel at a loss here, perhaps there is something I am missing that is obvious, so any help would be much appreciated, many thanks.

[Adravor]

I´m no Decal expert myself and very much a learner, but comparing these two i see the biggest differences in head (especially the placement of the eye) aswell as the feet (especially the left one).

[Schwerpunkt]

I have recently decided that I should get around to learning more about the various manufacturers of helmets, in particular Heer decals, a topic that has always confused me. I decided to use germanhelmetvault, in particular, this page here, to learn about the various types. The issue, however, is that no matter how much I study these various varieties...they all look identical to me. I have also searched these forums to try and find a guide but couldn't find one.

I decided to focus on the big four, Huber Jordan u. Koerner, Pocher, ET, and Quist. The only one I can successfully identify out of the the four is the Quist "big foot" one as it is the only one where all 3 claws of the eagle overlap the top of the swastika.

The other 3, however, especially the supposed "thin wing" Huber Jordan u. Koerner decal and the Pocher decal - look identical. I don't see the wings being any "thinner" shorter, or different in any way.

First is the Ju.K, second is the Pocher...I just can't tell at all.


Pocher:


I have tried drawing lines on the images to work out the differences, but to me, they both like identical- same goes for the ET decal...I feel at a loss here, perhaps there is something I am missing that is obvious, so any help would be much appreciated, many thanks.

The key is train yourself , look at helmets that get posted , call it out in your mind the type you think it is then read the replies of others to confirm.
It is eye training and once you get the hang of it it is easy but it takes time and effort. The differences between Pocher and HJ&K are actually huge. Claws , head , feathers , all different.

[HoundsTooth]

Frank's tip is a good one:
When a new helmet is posted i scroll down as far as the decal - then closely examine it and say to yourself 'Is this real, and why?'.
Check the decal to others on reference sites - find the tiny details, zoom right in.
Don't look at the replies, make your own mind first.
Also check the other helmet info - EG: a KM decal, but an NS helmet... something is fishy then...

Some of the tiniest details start becoming your 'go to' points on every decal.
It's a learning process for me and still is... but i feel i am slowly getting better.

nick

[Dav]

The key is train yourself , look at helmets that get posted , call it out in your mind the type you think it is then read the replies of others to confirm.
It is eye training and once you get the hang of it it is easy but it takes time and effort. The differences between Pocher and HJ&K are actually huge. Claws , head , feathers , all different.

Thank you, this is what I am attempting to do and I can reasonably have a good inclination of whether a decal is real by seeing those fakes, and those that are fake- but it's only a gut feeling that's usually right, backed up by further details such as which decal is supposed to match with each manufacturer and time period. This is why I am here - I want to know precisely why the first is named a "thin wing" type, when the wings (at least to me) are no thinner, thicker, wider, or shorter than any of the others? I have tried closely scrutinising these two, looking at other examples, even measuring, overlaying the two. I want to be able to not just be able to tell if a decal is real or fake from it's overall patina and look, but to being able to tell of which manufacturer each one is by knowing precisely which details differ from each.

It's easy enough to say when one has twice my lifetimes experience in scrutinizing decals to say which are fake, and which are real based on what you've noticed, but as someone who has only just started looking into decals specifically, being told x, y, and z are fake but with no inclination as to why other than "they just look wrong" or it has a "thin wing" is not much help, to me at least. Somewhere on the forums there was an excellent thread that detailed specific things to look for, such as the size of the feathers in relation to this, or where things should or shouldn't overlap - but I can't seem to find it...

[Dav]

Frank's tip is a good one:
When a new helmet is posted i scroll down as far as the decal - then closely examine it and say to yourself 'Is this real, and why?'.
Check the decal to others on reference sites - find the tiny details, zoom right in.
Don't look at the replies, make your own mind first.
Also check the other helmet info - EG: a KM decal, but an NS helmet... something is fishy then...

Some of the tiniest details start becoming your 'go to' points on every decal.
It's a learning process for me and still is... but i feel i am slowly getting better.

nick

Thank you. This is true, and advice that I have been using. Knowing specific dates and types of decal which should match to each helmet is very useful - and something German Helmet Vault is perfect for. Perhaps I didn't phrase my original post correctly, but this is more to know which specific things commonly referred to actually mean - such as the "thin wing" - which bit of the wing is thinner? And thinner in what respect? Another example is the "big foot" which to me is noticeable as I mentioned in my original post. It's these crucial questions which will help me massively that I am struggling to find a clear answer for...

[Schwerpunkt]

Thank you. This is true, and advice that I have been using. Knowing specific dates and types of decal which should match to each helmet is very useful - and something German Helmet Vault is perfect for. Perhaps I didn't phrase my original post correctly, but this is more to know which specific things commonly referred to actually mean - such as the "thin wing" - which bit of the wing is thinner? And thinner in what respect? Another example is the "big foot" which to me is noticeable as I mentioned in my original post. It's these crucial questions which will help me massively that I am struggling to find a clear answer for...

The talons dropping down from the wings are thinner.

[Dav]

I´m no Decal expert myself and very much a learner, but comparing these two i see the biggest differences in head (especially the placement of the eye) aswell as the feet (especially the left one).

I initially thought that, but due to the different picture resolutions I wasn't sure if there was any noticeable differences in their print, or whether it was down to the helmet the decal was applied to, here is a composite of 6 Pochers and 6 Ju.K eagles heads, edited to enhance the outlines and remove colour variations:

[Schwerpunkt]

I initially thought that, but due to the different picture resolutions I wasn't sure if there was any noticeable differences in their print, or whether it was down to the helmet the decal was applied to, here is a composite of 6 Pochers and 6 Ju.K eagles heads, edited to enhance the outlines and remove colour variations:

It's best you learn them without extreme zoom ups, the differences are more apparent. And focus on all the differences not just one. Claws being equally important.
Remember you look at a decal as a whole not in parts.

[Dav]

It's best you learn them without extreme zoom ups, the differences are more apparent. And focus on all the differences not just one. Claws being equally important.
Remember you look at a decal as a whole not in parts.

Thank you, here was an image I made earlier trying to compare the 2 types, perhaps it will be of use to someone. All red lines are the same length and all decals were cropped and aligned to the same size. The first set of red lines on the thicker part of the feathers is aligned to the black border, the second set of red lines on the thinner part of the feather is aligned to the beginning of the white section...I personally cannot see any significant or noticeable difference in thickness of the lower feathers (the thicker part of the feathers does appear be a hair thinner), the only other difference I can notice between the two decals is the level of sharpness and definition on the borders, between the feathers etc. It looks as if the Huber Jordan u. Koerner have just been sat in the application solution longer...regarding the eyes, the only difference I can note is that Pocher examples have a more semi circular eyeball, that is slightly large, but it even seems to be varying between each Pocher decal.