How accurate is the Lotnr-researchGHV2022 spreadsheet?

**NZ Allblacks** · 05-10-2023, 05:38 PM

Hi,

I have recently been emailed a M35 DD helmet for sale by one of the main dealers.

Looks in really nice original condition and the decals are both 90% there and a good match to Quist images on this forum and WW2 German Helmet site. Also comes with COA from a well known helmet 'expert' for what that's worth. Being sold as having 100% original paint, lining and chinstrap with a fairly high price tag.

What I'm finding strange when looking at the Lots Number Database spreadsheet, the lot number shows up correctly for a M35 Q66 but the notes mention Quist decal present but with other decal scratched off?

I was going to post up images but the images are watermarked and probably not good to throw them up in a public website. Seems odd the second decal has magically re-appeared if I'm correctly understanding the spreadsheet.

Is the Lotnr-researchGHV2022 spreadsheet seen as a good basis to judge helmet authenticity? Thinking it probably is.

Cheers, dave.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 05-10-2023 05:38 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Schwerpunkt** · 05-10-2023, 05:44 PM

by NZ Allblacks

Hi,

I have recently been emailed a M35 DD helmet for sale by one of the main dealers.

Looks in really nice original condition and the decals are both 90% there and a good match to Quist images on this forum and WW2 German Helmet site. Also comes with COA from a well known helmet 'expert' for what that's worth. Being sold as having 100% original paint, lining and chinstrap with a fairly high price tag.

What I'm finding strange when looking at the Lots Number Database spreadsheet, the lot number shows up correctly for a M35 Q66 but the notes mention Quist decal present but with other decal scratched off?

I was going to post up images but the images are watermarked and probably not good to throw them up in a public website. Seems odd the second decal has magically re-appeared if I'm correctly understanding the spreadsheet.

Is the Lotnr-researchGHV2022 spreadsheet seen as a good basis to judge helmet authenticity? Thinking it probably is.

Cheers, dave.

Hello Dave , it is probably a completely different helmet. if you look at all the green highlighted lot numbers you can see 1 number is found on x number of helmets.
Also read the text on the page and in the lot number list at the top. VERY IMPORTANT

Also
THIS LIST IS A RESEARCH TOOL AND DOES NOT SERVE AS A GUARANTEE OF ORIGINALITY
VISUAL INSPECTION IS THE ONLY WAY TO AUTHENTICATE A HELMET

**Kohima** · 05-10-2023, 05:53 PM

If the images are on the dealer’s website, they are already in public domain - so, fair game.
Though, perhaps, you might want to okay it with them first.

**NZ Allblacks** · 05-10-2023, 06:58 PM

Thanks for replies and I'm certainly not trying to suggest the information contained in the spreadsheet is not correct and appreciate it is indeed a research tool but it is a valuable one for someone like me starting out.

I'm really reluctant to post the images not just because watermarked but also because I might be misunderstanding the spreadsheet.

I looked again at the images and probably does no harm me stating the complete Lot # 20728 which is a clear as day. When I do a search on the spreadsheet there is only one hit on that number and it seems one decal was missing at some stage?

Again if I am misunderstanding how to do research on these helmets I apologise but it good experience for me to try and research by myself first instead of constantly just posting up images and expecting the forum to help out.

Thanks, Dave.

**Schwerpunkt** · 05-10-2023, 07:02 PM

by NZ Allblacks

Thanks for replies and I'm certainly not trying to suggest the information contained in the spreadsheet is not correct and appreciate it is indeed a research tool but it is a valuable one for someone like me starting out.

I'm really reluctant to post the images not just because watermarked but also because I might be misunderstanding the spreadsheet.

I looked again at then images and probably does no harm me stating the complete Lot # 20728 which is a clear as day. When I do a search on the spreadsheet there is only one hit on that number and it seems one decal was missing at some stage?

Again if I am misunderstanding how to do research on these helmets I apologise but it good experience for me to try and research by myself first instead of constantly just posting up images and expecting the forum to help out.

Thanks, Dave.

You have to realise Dave that such a list is only a tiny % of millions of helmets produced so only helmets entered are helmets I have seen through photos and in hand.
Probably hundreds of 20728 helmets were made.

Maybe this answers some questions :

Lot numbers : Often misunderstood – German Helmet Vault

Also you should not be reluctant to post photos of the helmet you are going to buy , too many fakes. Don't be deterred you are in charge not the seller.

**NZ Allblacks** · 05-10-2023, 07:33 PM

Thank you for the extra link and now makes sense lot numbers are not specific to an individual helmet.

This collecting is constant learning which makes it so interesting.

I’ve emailed the seller a couple of questions and will certainly post up images if decide to buy.

It does look good, Quist decal, liner and dated strap.

Thanks again.

**TWS** · 05-11-2023, 04:05 AM

You have to understand what a lot number is. It belongs to a LOT of helmets, pun intended.

The number represents a production run of a batch of helmets. All in that batch are assigned to that same lot number.

It is NOT a serial number to an individual helmet by any means.

The production run of helmets in a single lot number could be a few hundred to several hundreds.

The entries in the lot number database are for specific individual helmets that have been observed and recorded in the modern era. These are the survivors from the millions of German helmets produced during the TR, and only those that were examined for entry into the database.

**Schwerpunkt** · 05-11-2023, 01:55 PM

small world : Waffen-SS Stahlhelm M 35 mit 2 Emblemen - Allgemeine-SS, Waffen-SS, SS-Verfugungstruppe - Kopfbedeckungen III. Reich & 2. Weltkrieg: Schirmmutzen, Schiffchen, Stahlhelme etc. - Militaria / Helmut Weitze

**NZ Allblacks** · 05-11-2023, 02:51 PM

Thanks again for replies, appreciated.
I’m starting to understand how the Lot numbers relate to steel helmets now. I do wonder when looking at all the archived films of the SS, with so many produced why are they so hard to get and damned expensive!

And yes the link you posted was the helmet I was considering. To be fair to the seller they have came back to say large patches of paint missing at the back and some dents. I’m probably expecting too much as this could be called character but think I’ll wait. It does however look original from the time I spent researching the decals etc. but what do I know. Cheers, Dave.

**Mathieu K** · 05-14-2023, 03:29 AM

The database is a valuable tool within limitations. In some cases, it can definitely let you know whether a helmet should, or should not have decals. In some cases where the lot numbers are in a range where they both do and don't present with decals, it is not definitive, but it paints a picture. Especially identifying M42s that shouldn't have decals that do...

Sometimes the extra information on liner dates, or material (pigskin, etc.) is useful. I just bought a helmet off eBay where the sellers photos were not very clear, which I am sure dissuaded other bidders. It was a helmet you would expect to have a decal, that didn't, but the database supported it being a ND.