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Red cross helmet

Article about: Goodevening to everyone, I wasnt doing all that much this evening so why not post a nice helmet. Its a m34 red cross helmet in green. It in such good condition that i think no one ever worn

  1. #11

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    Quote by DantheWarMan View Post
    Well i dont know what to say. Somehow were going from helmet experts to paper and printing technique experts just bases on a photograph. No one has ever seen a paper like this so therefore it must be fake.

    I took a picture of this piece of paper with an original wartime newspaper and a few papers i could find to take a picture with blacklight as for the decal. Both didnt fluorence.

    To ask the question if its stamped edelstahl? No it isnt. I took some side by side pictures to compare and the model comes pretty close exept for the vents.

    What i find strange is that there was done some microscopic experiment on the round bottom drk decal and it passed the test but would still be considered fake cause we have no wartime period photo evidence. Yet here we are with a nice pointed one en suddenly the border is too tick? Where is photo evidence of how tick this border should be?

    What do we really now about drk decals because in heer decals or luftwaffe there are hundreds and drk to be honest only a handfull. How many variant are there? We dont know..but the tr sure had more drk helmet than those few we know of right now. Bear never mentioned green drk helmet bit does it mean they dont exist? He sure didn't see everything.

    If the decal is fake to wich branche can we bring this helmet down because i never saw a similar one in this shape and colour? Did erel made helmets themselfe? A lot of questions unanswered.

    In the future there may pop up some more helmets we never seen in a certain configuration. If everthing will be called fake just as easy as this one whitout proper research its a shame for the historical value.

    For now im okay with this one being fake. If the farmer doesnt now it he dont eat it
    The early DRK helmets were green the problem is with the decal unfortunately and the color of the helmet , a lot of these see post war use.
    I have seen quite a lot of DRK helmets but never this decal. If you have a return warranty I would send it back.

    On my page you can see a few from mine and other collections.
    Deutches Rotes Kreuz (DRK) – German Helmet Vault

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  3. #12
    MAP
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    Quote by DantheWarMan View Post
    Well i dont know what to say. Somehow were going from helmet experts to paper and printing technique experts just bases on a photograph. No one has ever seen a paper like this so therefore it must be fake.


    ......Did erel made helmets themselfe?
    IMHO, the paper is irrelevant to the discussion on the helmet. Despite the "red cross" subject matter I don't think it has anything to do with the helmet. My guess is that some one stuck it in there.

    eReL certainly made liners and shells. I do not know if they made steel civilian shells but they certainly made Fibre shells.

    This one from Jim however is apparently a steel shelled eReL

    M34 Double Decal Police - Erel Shell - Green Paint
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  4. #13
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    >>What i find strange is that there was done some microscopic experiment on the round bottom drk decal and it passed the test but would still be considered fake cause we have no wartime period photo evidence. Yet here we are with a nice pointed one en suddenly the border is too tick? Where is photo evidence of how tick this border should be?

    The problem with this statement is that you only talk about 1/2 of that paper (the one that I believe Schwerpunkt wrote by the way). The reason that the round bottom is a considered a fake is that there is no version found in any picture, they are on helmets that the DRK never used, on colours of helmets that the DRK never used and yet for every 1 pointed there seems to be 2-3 round bottom. To add to all of this all the old time collectors remember when these start to show up, prior to the mid 1970's there was no round bottoms then suddenly we start seeing them on helmets that prior to that point never had an example of a DRK. I know a collector that has literally thousands of DRK pictures and pretty much had every type of badge, uniform and helmet that DRK created, there is no example in any of those pictures that had a round bottom. He has been able to find pictures of badges that there are less than a few dozen examples know but not a single round bottom helmet, this tells a lot doesn't it.

    It isn't just the border, this is just one of the things wrong including wing feathers, cross, swastika etc.

  5. #14

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    Im well aware off your site frank and youve done a great job with that so let that be clear. I respect your knowledge and expertise so no arguing about that haha.

    As for the colour that shouldnt be correct and helmets like these saw postwar.. this paint was the first collour. The complete dome is painted in this collour and the liner is not fastened with split pins but with rivets and they are tight as hell and untouched.. so it could definitely not be repainted. And if where going to say this is all a postwar fixed together from helmet, liner and rivets than that does not sound plausible. Then there should be out there more..

    The black outline of the decal is almost exactly the same tickness of one of the helmets on ghv. Where talking muliscule difference here. It just seems thicker because there is probably some protection layer added. Ill ad some pics. The decal itself is absolutely diffent cant argue with that.. and i thought that was what this site was all about. To learn more and maybe new things and share knowledge. The idea of there being another variant of this decal out there is definitely a no go so in fact after bear closed his investigation it closed for everyone.

    When the piece of paper could be used to argue the helmet was fake it was relevant. Now the piece of paper could be plausible it suddenly becomes irrelevant. Well id did come with the helmet. The helmet look real quality made, the dome fully leathered the felt underneath almost a cm thick. Ss jackets were privately made.. schirmmutze were privately made a helmet could definitely be privately made..

    But then again. Minds are allready made up. No further investigation or research will be needed.. its fake and im okay if it stays like that.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Red cross helmet   Red cross helmet  

    Red cross helmet   Red cross helmet  


  6. #15
    MAP
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    Quote by DantheWarMan View Post
    Im well aware off your site frank and youve done a great job with that so let that be clear. I respect your knowledge and expertise so no arguing about that haha.

    As for the colour that shouldnt be correct and helmets like these saw postwar.. this paint was the first collour. The complete dome is painted in this collour and the liner is not fastened with split pins but with rivets and they are tight as hell and untouched.. so it could definitely not be repainted. And if where going to say this is all a postwar fixed together from helmet, liner and rivets than that does not sound plausible. Then there should be out there more..

    The black outline of the decal is almost exactly the same tickness of one of the helmets on ghv. Where talking muliscule difference here. It just seems thicker because there is probably some protection layer added. Ill ad some pics. The decal itself is absolutely diffent cant argue with that.. and i thought that was what this site was all about. To learn more and maybe new things and share knowledge. The idea of there being another variant of this decal out there is definitely a no go so in fact after bear closed his investigation it closed for everyone.

    When the piece of paper could be used to argue the helmet was fake it was relevant. Now the piece of paper could be plausible it suddenly becomes irrelevant. Well id did come with the helmet. The helmet look real quality made, the dome fully leathered the felt underneath almost a cm thick. Ss jackets were privately made.. schirmmutze were privately made a helmet could definitely be privately made..

    But then again. Minds are allready made up. No further investigation or research will be needed.. its fake and im okay if it stays like that.
    Dan.

    We are having a discussion here. And no one has shut you down. By all means, we can continue with the quest. These are uncommon helmets and a niche area. I've remained silent for that same reason. I don't study these decals.

    But I do stand by my point. The piece of paper is irrelevant. Lets focus on the helmet and the decals. That is where the answers will be found.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #16

  8. #17

  9. #18

    Smile

    Its a pitty to see how the paint has been called wrong and no one really want to explain how this bad paint got under the rivetet liner? Only 2 links to helmets with no real explanation. For the beaded one that was judged almost a decade ago.. those pictures were taking in a dark room with flashlight.. thats a absolute no go. The flash makes all the colours wrong so no good judgement can be made that way.. the decal however is an exact match of mine and also the erel domeprint is exactly the same as in mine. So if we put all the comments together this would mean that this guy..

    - faked a nice looking decal that does not fluorence.
    - faked a leather printed erel emblem ( that does not fluorence i checked)
    - he could reproduce wartime liner rivets to esemble everything.
    - to make it more convincing he faked a nice paper tag that does not fluorence either.
    - while he was all doing this he faked some candle stick too because he placed some more paper tags.. maybe that was were te real money was.. candle sticks. (I add a photo of it).

    This guy must be superman and i highly doubt that.

    I definitely would have called the helmet on ghw fake on how it looks that way .. round cork spacers.. grey rivets/split pins. Its a weird put together and the first one popping up with this decal. But without seeing it in real life i just think everything was called fake too soon in my opinion.

    I also found another one. Same decal alo dd with national color shield. I know i have everyone against me on this one but im still not convinced its fake so untill then i hope we can agree on a ceasefire haha?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Red cross helmet   Red cross helmet  

    Red cross helmet   Red cross helmet  

    Red cross helmet  

  10. #19

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    As for a respons on the beaded shell on the ima site.. i dont know why this one was used to call it fake.. it looks like a good helmet to me. Good luftschutz helmet that was redecaled for the drk. Traces of the luftschutz decal are clearly visible on this one. And if im correct beaded helmets were used in drk.. i believe frank has a nice picture of these helmets being used by drk on his website.

    Not the evidence that will crack this nut for now..but i keep on searching..
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Red cross helmet   Red cross helmet  


  11. #20

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    Hello Dan , there is no beaded DRK on my website.
    On the IMA one. It is a denazified or post war used beaded luftschutz that got these fake decals. Shells with scratched off decals are often abused for that purpose.

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