hj leaders buckle

**HJ-Collector** · 03-25-2010, 10:09 PM

hi guys seen this hj leaders buckle over on gmc for $225 i think it looks good and is a nice deal am i right? i dont reakon it will be there long?

cheers ewan

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-25-2010 10:09 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**David North** · 03-26-2010, 06:30 AM

Ewan

On a purely personal basis, I would not touch a M4/116 (Camill Bergmann und Co., Gablonz) HJ Leaders buckle with the proverbial barge pole.

An M4/22 by Christian Theodor Dicke, Lüdenscheid I would consider (after very close scrutiny), however not a Camill Bergmann.

The HJ Leaders buckle as you know is very heavily faked and actually, a relatively easy one to produce. That of course is a great problem. The great problem is then compounded by the appearance of a superior grade HJ Leaders buckle with an M4 mark that is puzzling. Camill Bergmann as a minor manufacturer and yet holding a lucrative and prestigious contract with Dicke - I think not. Also, HJ Leaders with the M4/116 mark have only "recently" appeared on the market.

What I am saying is that if anyone is intending to buy a HJ Leaders buckle, then I would recommend the safe option of a M4/22 every time.

So Ewan and in answer to your questions - no I do not think that it looks good, no I do not think that it is a nice deal and yes, it will probably be sold quickly.

Regards,

David

**HJ-Collector** · 03-26-2010, 09:43 AM

hi david thanks for the much valued opinion and info i thought it too good to be true the price being a give away i dont really collect buckles and have alot to learn

regards ewan

**David North** · 03-26-2010, 10:27 AM

Ewan

Although I do not collect Leaders buckles, perhaps I am correct in thinking that an original HJ now possibly commands a price say double from the one that you referred to.

As far as originals are concerned, I have seen examples by:-

M4/22 Christian Theodor Dicke, Lüdenscheid
M4/46 Wilhelm Schröder und Cie., Lüdenscheid
M4/119 Eugen Schmiedhäusler, Pforzheim

There are probably more manufacturers than the above trio in relation to the HJ Leaders buckle.

In relation to the fakes and ignoring for the moment the M4/116.

Dicke and Schröder are definitely faked and possibly (to my knowledge unconfirmed), the Schmiedhäusler.

The 119 is a super buckle and anecdotally, it has been suggested that the fakers chose 116 as at a casual glance, this number could register as 119 !!

I do not like the 116 HJ Leaders buckle, however if someone was to show an example which had an indisputable source and provenance, well - a big apology from David North.

Regards,

David