RMBO or Political Buckle

[Vlad]

Hi friends.
I want to show you the buckle which recently acquired Russian collector. This buckle he bought in the early nineties. This buckle you can see in the book Catellа. I want to show you a large details and hallmarks for comparison with other buckles. Please note that all details are identical with those of earlier German railway buckles. Compare brands and other distinctive marks such stigma put Assmann to 36 years; design securing the rear plate as identical buckles bahnschutze firm Assmann. note claws, it's the classic claws aluminum buckles. It self buckle made of die-cast aluminum with gold anodizing. More over, many of the details polished item no to Shine. Hope you enjoyed this study.
Sorry for my English.

[David North]

Dear Vladimir

An interesting buckle to say the least and with an expensive price tag I assume.

There are some and including myself who feel that this buckle is a post 1945 fantasy item and despite where the reference books suggest otherwise.

To my mind it does not look or feel like a period, experimental or prototype buckle and I have by the way, personally inspected in hand, several of these. Again, a pure fantasy item in my opinion.

Regards,

David

[Vlad]

hi David. I'm collecting buckles not the first year and also adhered to your opinions, but when picked up and studied in detail, I can say with confidence buckle authentic. I am not used to believe the words, I believe my eyes and arguments. The WA also has its supporters against, but why no one, no evidence provided, only words. Alright, let's open a discussion. Can anyone show a fake with a similar fastening plates and marking hammered different punches??? And let's state the facts and only facts, not speculation and the old stories that someone somewhere saw what they did such a fake.

[Ben Evans]

Hi Vlad, firstly mate your English is better than mine so please do not be sorry for it lol In ref to the buckle it is not one I am familiar with to be honest. I have just been looking through the Assmann catalogue and there is no ref to it in there. There is ref to it on page 540 in the Angolia book. For me I am with David, the buckle does look like a period WW2 made buckle. In my eyes a post war made piece. Hopefully in future there will be some pictures or documentation that proves or shows the buckle in use. We could say the same for the SA Wehrmannshaft or Gau Essen buckle but with them for me they look and feel period made. I have never held one of these but from the pics provided and what I can see in the Anglolia book not for me

[Vlad]

Hi Ben. Thank you for your opinion. I understand that you are guided by personal feelings. But let me not agree. We study the subject, we compare and on the basis of the results and draw conclusions. In my photographs I compared the labeling and design buckles . They are absolutely identical. I don't know a single forgery of these marks, I don't know of one falsification of such design rear plate, I don't know no one correct forgery claws Assmann. Let's think logically, if any of these labels and design forgery then let's declare fakes aluminum buckle Bancshutz. My logic is correct????

[kirby]

Vlad makes some interesting points. I would love to give one of these a hands on inspection. They seem to be very well made.

One of these buckles was listed in the Manions Auction in August of 1984. It was listed as unknown and sold for $342. That would have bought 3-4 nice SS EM buckles. The repos and fakes weren't very good back then. This makes me lean towards this buckle being original. I would love to see a photo of the buckle being worn.

Kirby

[Vlad]

Hi Kirby. You said very important detail, at the time could not make a copy of such a high level and cannot do this even in our time. Cost of manufacturing of such products will be very high. In 80 years, even high-quality castings are not mastered. The buckle was bought in the early nineties $ 50 us. This amount is clearly less than the cost price at the time. I had heard rumors about some mythical producer who made such buckle, but no evidence does not. What happened with this genius and why do we not see his product now??? Nobody can answer these questions. I am sure that even in 2013 will not be able to copy such buckle.

[David North]

Dear Vladimir

In my opinion, if you are looking for documented evidence that this buckle is period, then you may have a long wait. Also, if you are only interested in a discussion where opinions are supported by documented evidence, then this thread is finished.

I personally see nothing wrong with airing subjective speculation and thoughts.

The buckle does indeed appear in several buckle reference works and to include "Collecting Third Reich Buckles - A Russian Perspective". If I am not mistaken, the buckle you have shown is one and the same as that very clearly illustrated in the said book.

The buckle also was shown within the now infamous Military Adviser article from Summer 2004 "The Gau Essen Buckle and other Souvenirs from Post World War II Germany". I have attached one of the images from the article and which shows two examples of the buckle being discussed here. You know as well as I that this grouping includes at least one well documented fake and which unfortunately, breaches the integrity of the overall image.

Without one single shred of evidence, I still suggest that this so called prototype RMBO buckle is a fantasy item. In my opinion and for Assmann who I have always regarded as a conservative and traditionalist company, the design is bordering on absurd and not at all in period. This sharp and angular design has always shouted 1970's to myself at least and is slightly reminiscent in odd respects to some of the fantasy designs which appear on the cover of "Belt Buckles and Brocades of the Third Reich" - 1st Edition.

It is not unheard of that high grade fantasy items, supposedly from the Third Reich, have been commissioned to order and at great expense. Do not forget that Assmann continued manufacturing post 1945 and which included designing, producing and selling buckles to armed forces throughout the world and to include those in South America and the Middle East.

The buckle and whilst possibly manufactured on Assmann tools, seems totally and in splendid isolation "out of period" by the overall design.

Regards,

David

[Vlad]

David, I have the original of this journal and of course read all the other articles. The article shown You very controversial, but the fact that most of the buckles there original of this fact. Forgery could get accidentally. We will never know what really happened. Now counterpart Assmann. I disagree with you strongly. Since you know exactly Assmann invented many different options catchs and always experimenting with the design of the buckles. Some of the buckles were only assmann. This is the most prolific manufacturer. He introduced a number of inventions. Now on the buckle. You suggested that this may be in the postwar fabrication. And did you notice that the marking dealt two stamps, it is early. Where is the logic of the action??? You could put a late marking one stamp. Why so complicated product??? I'm talking about obvious things, this simple analysis. I'm not looking for a documentary confirmation, so many subjects Reich not have images in the directory, but they exist. I'm trying to show you the arguments and photo facts and I want to answer also see evidence of forgery. At least manufacturer of such fakes. While none of the collectors failed to do that.

[David North]

Dear Vladimir

I appreciate and fully respect, although do not agree with, your response and on many issues. It is however quite academic as it is clear that you and I will never find any common ground in relation to this quite enigmatic and again, interesting buckle. I have always advocated collecting with ones heart rather than ones head, with this buckle being a classic example. Not one for myself and I wish you luck in searching for and establishing provenance.

Regards and best wishes,

David