WW2 Post-War Hitler Youth Knife Scout Dagger Combat Used Field Modified?

[komet45]

I recently acquired this knife and have been unable to crack it's secrets! It strongly appears to be a WW2 Hitler Youth / Post-War German Scout knife in profile and construction but no markings can be found on it.

The blade has been sharpened and has mild pitting. A strong, high ricasso is present. The blade is slightly offset from the hilt, which appears to reveal the "correct" style of production for HJ knives, with the partial, hidden tang being secured to the hilt with the top pin of the grip scales. Though the blade has shifted it's position in the hilt it is still securely attached without any detectable "wobble" or "play."

The hilt appears to have once had a polished finish that has been lost, modest surface rust and discoloration is present. The crossguard has a strong curved profile that most HJ knives do not possess, however I have found evidence of an identical example made by Hartkopf. The grind profiles on the spine that meet the crossguard and the pommel are nearly identical to many other confirmed HJ knives i have viewed.

The grips appear to be made from walnut and have a genuine patina that only time can create. They are securely riveted to the hilt though one is cracked at the top rivet, perhaps a result of the trauma that shifted the blade.

I am uncertain if this example is something assembled from parts Post-War or a late production WW2 era blade that possibly could have been used and repaired in the field. I know that this type of blade flooded the US market in the 50s and 60s, and many were used as they were intended to be. The age and wear on this blade does have a different "feel" than that of one used occasionally on camping or fishing trips but alas, without hard evidence or provenance it is simply just a knife. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts and opinions you would care to share on this intriguing piece.

[komet45]

Here are a few links to other examples I found that have similar features to the one in question:

Strongly curved crossguard:
WW2 German Daggers | EARLY HITLER YOUTH DAGGER BY HARTKOPF & Co

Unmarked blades with similar profile:
Hitler Youth Knife - Unmarked - Epic Artifacts

Hitler Youth Knife

Examples with replacement grips:
Just a moment...

Just a moment...

[Anderson]

A bit of an anomaly case as with a steel hilt you would think 1936-38, as the post war Scout knives would have a Zinc alloy hilt. But an early high ricasso knife would usually have a motto and maker & RZM on the blade. So possibly an assembly with earlier hilt and later blade. Any scabbard with it?

[komet45]

Anderson, the hilt is steel (a magnet sticks to it strongly) and I cannot find any traces of stamping on the blade or ricasso. I have seen a "transitional" Hartkopf HJ knife that is marked only with an RZM stamp on the ricasso (German WWII Hitler Youth Knife | Cowan's Auction House: The Midwest's Most Trusted Auction House / Antiques / Fine Art / Art Appraisals) and the blade shares a similar profile to my own. However, I cannot find any strong indicators that the ricasso of my blade was ever stamped like this, as it would take a considerable amount of grinding to remove the stamp fully. There are fine "filing" / "grinding" marks that I can see under strong magnification on the ricasso where the RZM stamp should be and this could possibly be evidence of removal, but I am doubtful of it.

My first impression was a Post-War parts knife and a completely unmarked blade could support this theory, however most of the "Scout" blades imported into the US in the 50s and 60s were clearly stamped "GERMANY" per US law. No scabbard came with the blade, and thus no additional "clues" can be added to what we see here. The gentleman I purchased it from knew it was a "Salin-ger" blade (as he pronounced it!) and claimed to have found it at an estate sale recently. This "clue" could easily point to WW2 era or Post-War era construction...so right back to where we started!

[Larry C]

I have a post war scout knife I picked up in the 1970s...and has Edge Brand Solingen Germany on one side of the ricasso and a 3 digit number on the other side ...both are lightly stamped and small.
I can see it would not take much effort to grind it off or even using sandpaper to do the job. Just my observations.

Regards Larry

[komet45]

Larry - I think you are on to something and might have the final verdict at hand. The "left" ricasso shows mild traces of what could be either filing or sanding marks. This is also the area a later production HJ knife would have an RZM stamp, but I have seen late examples that had no stamps at all too. With many of these blades escaping in "unissued" condition, I would imagine the bulk of this lot were the unmarked very late production examples. These would have been easiest to stamp for export to the US. Neither side of the ricasso on my blade shows any signs of a "deep strike" stamp. I am not certain which process was more common on HJ knives but if the RZM stamp was "acid etched" it would seemingly be easier to remove than if it had been die stamped.

Appreciate all the thoughts shared on this little blade, it is an interesting piece I am happy to have in my collection. I always love a blade that has a bit of mystery attached to it and this one has it for sure!

Found this photograph on Lakesidetrader's website and got a real kick out of it....looks fun!

https://www.lakesidetrader.com/img_p...n/hj/games.jpg