Help with k98 bayonet

[HistoryDigger75]

Hello could y’all help me out with this k98 bayonet? I’ve had it in my collection for a while and I’m no expert on bayonets so I really don’t know much about it

[Mordecai]

42ffc would be made by F. Herder A Sn in 1942. Scabbard appears matching, nice bayonet! Its hard for me to read the frog stamp though.

Cheers!

[HistoryDigger75]

Thanks. Sorry for the pictures being turned that way I’ll try to find a way to fix them

[Sleepwalker]

A matching S84/98 (a 98k bayonet never exist). Somewhat rusty and heavily used. Matching numbers is good

The manufacturer of the frog is A. Doppert, Lederfabrik Kitzingen.

Regards

[Mordecai]

Well the proper term for your bayonet would be (M1884/98 III), as they did reissue some M1884/98, M1894/98 II's, M1898 a/A, & M1898 n/A Bayonets for 'mostly' dress use, but its fine to refer to it as a Kar98k bayonet as they were only issuing the M1884/98 III bayonets for use on German issue Kar98k rifles originally, even if they did fit on German capture VZ-24's.

Also, I believe Sleepwalker is correct on the frog being A. Doppert, Lederfabrik Kitzingen, I was having trouble reading it!

For future reference I cant recommend the Kar98k Bayonets data registry enough!
k98 bayonets data and registry

[Frogprince]

When I began collecting everybody I knew used "98K" to describe German manufactured WW2 era combat bayonets. Everybody. But after a fair amount of time I decided to go with the more German way of using an "S" or "S." for Seitengewehr (Bayonets) when I realized that being technically correct in German would not be correct in the English speaking world - and (as they say): "just live with it" (being married or having a girlfriend helps here). And simple logic does not help. Posted is a Gewehr (G.)33/40 rifle that in the English speaking world is called a Carbine (that is actually shorter than a Kar.98k (short) rifle). While at the same at that the same time the Karabiner 98 kurz (Kar.98k) (short) rifle is in fact shorter than the Gewehr 98 (long rifle). Best Regards, Fred

[Sleepwalker]

Hello

No, strictly speaking, there is no M84/98III. This is purely a term used by collectors.

The bayonet was S84/98 n.A. or just called S84/98.
Rifles and bayonets are separate developments and have the dates of their development in their names. That has nothing to do with their usability.
On the S98/84 it is the handle head 1898 and the short knife blade 1884 (from the S71/84).

The S84/98 n.A. was built from 1915. In 1927 the model was slightly modified. It received a different knife blade and was supposed to be blued at the factory. The 98k carbine didn't come out until 1935. So that doesn't fit the timing.

However, the fixing system was used in 1898. Therefore, a large number of bayonets fit.

The S84/98 and the S98/05 were initially introduced with the K98k. From 1939 the S24(t) was added as a quasi third standard bayonet and from 1942 the S42 was added in small quantities.
From 1939 onwards additional booty bayonets such as the S129(p) series and the S129(r).

It wasn't just the K98k that was used either. The S84/98 also fit other models. The G98, the K98, K98az, G33(t), G24(t), G98/40, G33/40, G41 etc etc.

Regards

[AndyB]

Even i will not attach to any discussion here on nomenclature, as probably in USA its various terms used postwar as in Germany period,which corectly was described by SW, same as the bayonet was mainly used with and for Kar98k short rifle. The piece here was hammered on pommel, so probably locking lug will not work and is not possible to attach on a rifle?? Should be proofed.

[Mordecai]

You are of course correct strictly speaking and I am sorry if I had made it sound as if I thought S98/84 bayonets ONLY fit the Kar98k and were ONLY used on Kar98k's. When I said 'originally' I am referring on how the bayonet we collectors refer to as the 'S84/98 III' was issued with the Kar98k originally when the Heereswaffenamt adopted the Kar98 Kurz rifle in 1934-35, and that even If I dont refer to it as a Kar98k bayonet it is still not inaccurate to call a S98/84 III a Kar98k bayonet, even if it is similar in every way to the S98/84 II, and to past models all the way back to 1898. Same way in how its not inaccurate to call a M1898 a/A bayonet a 'Gewehr 98' bayonet or any S84/98 bayonet a 'Mkb42(h)' bayonet and it wouldn't be entirely inaccurate.

Regards.