Help Needed on Bayonet Markings

[Frogprince]

I believe the piece is correct, some were marked by A on place of WaA, so issume they were rejection from normal Wehrmacht production, we should see the serial number and letter of series, i assume it should be b range, its real similar bayonets that were not accepted into Army were used in export contracts, the possibilty of Spain is real but should be confirmed on real rifles.
FP the Fred Marut piece was numbered in same range.This bayonet was overhauled or refurbished visible on 2 points on press button and it was reblued.
The presented picture comparation is a S/244G, 2952b from Fred M. collection serialed on cg 59002, with in real range, but the piece was never blued, remained in white.
The S/244 36 piece on last link could be delivery from Army to Spain and mixed there we should see the proof areas, but here the piece is total rusted, so probaly no help on it.

Andy, I will defer to your expertise in this area as I know that rejects were sometimes used for non-Wehrmacht recipients of bayonets. Also being of the opinion that at least some of the so-called 1936 bayonets had to be later because underneath some of the grips you can still see a large straight wing eagle Waffenamt that most probably has to be later. The Spanish contract bayonets having a mixed finish of bright blueing on the scabbards, and polished steel (like sword blades) for the bayonets themselves. Best Regards, Fred

[Anderson]

I see your point Fred with regards the "S/244.G" mark. It does look different from others S code marks from the same year. But there seems to have been considerable variation on letter/number font and how struck. I haven't seen enough other S code Mundlos marks to compare. It does look though like the mark was a "hot strike" causing a deeper (U shape) impression. It may be the factory experimented with S code marking at different points of the production process. Wouldn't think anyone would bother faking it.

[Frogprince]

I see your point Fred with regards the "S/244.G" mark. It does look different from others S code marks from the same year. But there seems to have been considerable variation on letter/number font and how struck. I haven't seen enough other S code Mundlos marks to compare. It does look though like the mark was a "hot strike" causing a deeper (U shape) impression. It may be the factory experimented with S code marking at different points of the production process. Wouldn't think anyone would bother faking it.

Anderson, Likewise I see your point. But then if I understand the situation correctly Mundlos was not a newcomer with no understanding of bayonet making and it seems to conflict with the fact that Mundlos is known as a maker of service bayonets during World War One. Both as a maker, and in turn probably processing some blades from Solingen. (And not that it really means anything here, besides various other items, one of my wartime rifle cleaning kits was also made by Mundlos.) Best Regards, Fred

[Sleepwalker]

Hello,

I would also stick to my opinion that this is a Spanish M36 that was subsequently stamped with an S244G and serial number.

The S244G does not correspond to the original stamp.

The serial number from the reference example also seems to have been struck individually with 4 digit stamps.

Regards

[AndyB]

Personally i believe there should be a exesive study of spanish rifles delivery and comparation, secondly i believe there is much dirt in the code should be cleaned, and there is no one die for S/244G stamping, the fonts are ok to me, this is not faked, the piece is certainly refurbished so the countours are different, also the piece is 4433g? should be compared the dies with the piece of Fred M.
and the most problematic point, Mundlos is most well known producer with the major ammount of missproduction and rejections to compare to other firms, Mundlos produced sewing mashines as primary product. In WW1 they were only finishers and montage firm on different production blanks.

[Anderson]

Perhaps a possibility the bayonet was originally produced in a batch for the 1935 Spanish contract, not required or withdrawn (for some reason, perhaps with others), then retrospectively stamped with the S code and serial number and added into a Reich military contract batch. That could explain the odd features.

[Frogprince]

Personally i believe there should be a exesive study of spanish rifles delivery and comparation, secondly i believe there is much dirt in the code should be cleaned, and there is no one die for S/244G stamping, the fonts are ok to me, this is not faked, the piece is certainly refurbished so the countours are different, also the piece is 4433g? should be compared the dies with the piece of Fred M.
and the most problematic point, Mundlos is most well known producer with the major ammount of missproduction and rejections to compare to other firms, Mundlos produced sewing mashines as primary product. In WW1 they were only finishers and montage firm on different production blanks.

Perhaps a possibility the bayonet was originally produced in a batch for the 1935 Spanish contract, not required or withdrawn (for some reason, perhaps with others), then retrospectively stamped with the S code and serial number and added into a Reich military contract batch. That could explain the odd features.

In John Walter's book he borrowed information from Paul Kiesling's book about an export S. 84/98 bayonet that was serialized and made without flash guards that had a large WaA253 straightwing eagle type of Waffenamt on the tang. The line drawings and description(s) are somewhat different from my reference example that I have already mentioned. (BTW: I forgot to mention that the scabbard looks to be "hot dip" type of black oxide finish that is a slightly different from what is usually seen). Aside from a matte finish polished steel and no flash guard it is a standard German S. 84/98. With a few of them that I've had (and/or handled) otherwise identical to my reference example - they had the Spanish "P.R.8" markings.

The Spanish Civil War was from 17 July 1936 – 1 April 1939. Spanish rifles were made in 7x57mm that was its standard ammunition and it did receive some small numbers of Model 1933 rifles in 7x57mm both before and during the Civil War. However, during the war it also got a fair amount of German rifles that used 8x57mm ammunition that were also made to use the German type 4mm bayonet lug instead of the Spanish type that used an auxiliary bayonet lug. Rifles that were rebarreled had "7m/m" markings added to the weapons. In 1943 they introduced as a replacement (in 8x57mm) a rifle known as the Model 1943. Best Regards, Fred

[Frogprince]

My mistake. It should be read as a 4cm bayonet lug. Best Regards, Fred