1st model luftwaffe dagger rich.a.herder (need opinion)

**darkmyst** · 08-26-2013, 12:52 PM

Hello dear members,

I just bought a group of bayonnet to the son of a collector who doesn't collect them .
(sawback ww1 bayonet,sawback 1937 bayonet,parade,japanese,...)

he still owns a 1st model luftwaffe dagger by RICH.A.HERDER (it seems to be an uncommon maker) and i ask him to keep it for me

but first i would like to have some opinions.

Mine is that's a good one, i try to find other example on the internet and they are quite the same but as a beginner

i wanted to have some experts opinions as i don't want to make any mistake in buying it ...

So i got 4 questions for ya ^^

1) is it original?any red flags?

2) what would be a fair price for it?

3) i know the dagger has seen better days but the state is not too bad(not mint at all).What do you think?

4) is it cleanable/ upgradable?

no more blabla here are the pictures

best regards

Thai

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-26-2013 12:52 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**gerrit** · 08-26-2013, 01:45 PM

Hello Thai,

crossguard is wrong, grippwire is wrong, blade is not original.....for an early one.
Its a total mismatch between scabbard and dagger in color and material.
So yes its a bad one, more red flags then a ship has for signing

better run and leave the dagger where it is

In nothing it comes close to an early R.Herder, its a partsdagger with some original parts, rest is added.
Ill show you some pics of an early nickel/silver Luftwaffe Herder with the correct logo that once was in my collection.

cheers,
Ger

1st model luftwaffe dagger rich.a.herder (need opinion)

**PeterCollector** · 08-26-2013, 02:05 PM

Hello, I don´t have too much experience with 1st. model Luftwaffe daggers, but I have to say that this dagger is not early example but probably early/mid period piece. Pommel and crossguard is very interesting, they seems to be E-pack or W.K.C. produced, because these producers has very interesting fittings made from copper, Emil Voos produced some of this early/mid period daggers too and this yours dagger look very similar to them. If scabbard bands are made from iron, or they are magnetic it is possible that scabbard belong to this dagger.
Photos are not very good, so that is why I can be sure, but in my opinion this dagger is authentic and nonpartial (except wire on grip). But pommel seems to be from different material if I compare it to crossguard, or it is the same?

**gerrit** · 08-26-2013, 02:21 PM

IMO
The second type blade logo has been seen with nickel fittings and ALU guard but the inserted Swastika is different.
Its not the standard Herder guard, thats why i call its a parts dagger.
Its not an early manufactered one, compare it to mine.
Im certainly not convinced that this is an all Herder parts 1st luft.
Mismatching material, pommel, crossguard and scabbard fittings.
If you want to buy an early 1st then buy a good one.
Therefore my advise: dont buy it.

Ger

**darkmyst** · 08-30-2013, 09:11 AM

hello dear members,

Thank you for your answwers
i expected more opinions^^
i can have it for 300€ ,i think it still in good shape even if it's a part dagger compare to some i have already seen.
i don't know what to do
any additionnal opinions are welcome

@peter, can you give me your sources where i can find infos about the E-pack or W.K.C productions you are talking about because if you're correct i don't want to miss it !
What can i do to proove that is this kind of dagger ?

best regards
Thai

**PeterCollector** · 08-30-2013, 04:25 PM

Hi Thai, now I can´t find photos of daggers which has similar copper plating pommel and crossguard. I is only on your decision if you buy this dagger or not. But my advice is to spend some more money and purchased better one textbook example. So conclusion is - don´t buy it, get better example!

**davejb** · 08-30-2013, 04:36 PM

Not being funny or trying to be condescending, but I would heed the words of Gerrit, if I was you,he does have a very extensive knowledge of TR edged weapons

**gerrit** · 08-30-2013, 05:01 PM

Thx for the kind words Dave

Better save your money and go for a textbook early 1st pattern, so with early nickel fittings and crossguard and pommel.
Or go for the all Aluminium 1st pattern, they are cheaper but they match the time period.
Please dont go for the mixed Nickel and alu versions, they will be hard to sell afterwards when you would like to sell or trade it, BECAUSE you will upgrade this piece in the future.

Ger