Luftwaffe 2nd Modell Dagger - WKC

**Rossi** · 10-08-2021, 07:34 PM

by toot

why did some have ORANGE and some YELLOW hand guards?

From my knowledge the grip was available in white, yellow or orange. If the buyer had the necessary finances, it was possible to purchase ivory grips. The various types of grips available were strictly a matter of purchaser preference and not a symbol of rank or status within the Luftwaffe.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-08-2021 07:34 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**toot** · 10-08-2021, 08:07 PM

thank you sir for the explanation. I always wondered why so many different colors on the grips? were the only service / branch to offer different' color of grips?

**Rossi** · 10-08-2021, 10:23 PM

by toot

thank you sir for the explanation. I always wondered why so many different colors on the grips? were the only service / branch to offer different' color of grips?

Heer Daggers had a variety of colored grips. A great book here from forum members. Danny and Ger.

Ger and Dannys' New Heersdolche Reference Book

**Larry C** · 10-10-2021, 04:26 AM

Most of the grips were made of a substance called Trolon and over time ...mostly through decades and constantly being displayed in a well sunlit room ..the grips would start to change huing to a yellow and leading to a dark burgundy in some cases. This is nothing the producers decided to give the officers ...was a variety of colors.

You dont see a variety of colors other than what the sunlight has changed the material inside which has been observed over the decades.
I can say for those German officers on the go and constantly being outside in some instances that there would be an eventual tone change to their grips...but not really immediate to where it turned a dark Red or Burgundy.

Some producers later in the production period have bought wooden grips and painted them white.
Other grip types were made of Ivory and also artificial amber.
The descriptions can be found in Gerrit and Dannys Heer reference on pg 23 and surely Gerrit or Danny can explain further about that topic in their book.
Just for the sake of discussion ...if different hue colored grips were sanctioned by the Third Reich..then each organization would have had their own color as did the SA and SS.
Mainly Brown and Black grips were sanctioned for the political organizations.
Luftwaffe would of had blue?
the Heer Green ?
Kriegsmarine would of had a sea green or dark blue...etc.

Yet when collecting these Heer and Luftwaffe types ...it does highlight the dagger itself giving its own persona which have attracted many collectors to seek more.

A grip that has been laying in a display or hanging on a wall....one will notice if left untouched..that the grip will be darker on the front side and lighter on the reverse. Thats proof enough what the sun and time can do to trolon.

Regards Larry

**Rossi** · 10-10-2021, 04:59 AM

Not my writings but a good read. We are getting away from the Luft Dagger but all good to discuss the Heer as well.

The grip's on Period German Army Officer's daggers have proved to be quite a contentious issue over the years, with the collecting community divided. It was suggested a few years back that the majority of dagger grips fitted with the standard Trolon grip material started off white and given time, changed colour depending on exposure to light. I do not intend to stir up a hornets nest going into the rights and wrongs of this theory here and ultimately each collector should draw his own conclusions, I will however state that from a personal perspective, I am a true believer.
The majority of German Army Officers dagger's in collections today will be fitted with a Trolon grip, however several variants where also produced as an extra cost option or some as cheaper alternatives. Not all are shown above ( I was too lazy ! ).
1) The red grip on the far left is what is often referred to as a 'slant' or slanted grip, the name is basically taken from the steep angle of the swirls compared to the later style grips. The Type A or slant grip is normally only found on early manufactured German daggers ( with the exception of Christianswerk ) prior to 1936 and matched in most cases to a tapered tang blade.
2) The second grip with the widest segments was also used relatively early and throughout the production era, in some cases this style of grip appears to have been used by select manufacturers ( Heller for example ) as an alternative to the slanted variety as early as 1935. This Type B style grip was without a doubt the most prolific.
3) The Type C was a later contribution and is often found on daggers fitted with Generic parts or German Officers daggers featuring later war hilt fittings, the segments are slimmer than the earlier type B.
4) Often termed 'glass' or 'amber' the fourth grip pictured above is one of my personal favourites, as the name suggests they were made from a glass type material which often included metallic flakes added to the mix. This combination resulted in a translucent orange juice effect which is very appealing, the only downside to this material was the fragile similarity to glass, it is extremely difficult today to find an un-chipped or un-damaged example. Nearly always matched with Generic fittings or mid to later war configurations.
5) Probably the most desirable and sought after grip types available, the Ivory handled German Army Officers dagger was an extra cost option available to the purchaser at double the going rate of a standard dagger. This often meant that its use was reserved for Presentation daggers or purchased by Officers from a Noble or priveleged background. It is also safe to say that a larger proportion of daggers founds with Ivory grips are often accompanied by other higher cost options such as Damascus blades or highly engraved family motifs or cartouches. On a side note, if anybody has one they do not want, I will happily pay the postage and guarantee it will be looked after

.

GRIP TYPES - Other

GALALITH - Or milk-stone grips was a cheaper alternative used later in the period and were derived from casein ( milk protein ) and immersion in formaldehyde. White in colour, the material is relatively easy to spot today, the porous surface of these grips often looks crazed or chalky in appearance with fine lines or scratches as if somebody has sanded the grip with a fine paper. The material did not change colour, so all examples found today will be white or cream in colour.

CELLULOID - The cheapest to produce featured a plaster or wood cored grip that was coated with a celluloid or plastic layer. Both the wood cored and plaster filled grip will often show a seam running up one side, I suspect this process would have been achieved by heat application and is often cleverly disguised. The plaster filled celluloid grips would have been formed by applying heat to the celluloid layer over a mould, possibly wood and then cooled. The grips where then injected with a plaster filler and while wet, assembled over the blade tang and left to set in place ensuring a solid and tight fit to hilt assembly. This fact that the wood cored grips are rarely encountered may be because they were never intentionally meant to be production, instead and possibly because of a short life span as a mould they were simply covered and shipped as production and the mould replaced. I do not think they would have used metal as a mould for the celluloid layers as it would have expanded, wood makes far more sense to me.....................just a theory!.

PAINTED - Occasionally white painted German Army dagger grips surface over a wood core, whether these were intended as production or simply a case of using up excess or redundant moulds for the plaster filled grips is speculation on my part. They are however quite scarce, especially ones with the paint intact. Another anomaly that surfaces from time to time is the use of the black funeral or railway dagger grip, painted white. This paint was prone to chipping and in the course of 60+ years, most cases it is eventually fully removed revealing an army dagger with a black grip. These daggers are virtually always by the manufacturer Klaas.

**Rossi** · 10-10-2021, 05:23 AM

by Larry C

Most of the grips were made of a substance called Trolon and over time ...mostly through decades and constantly being displayed in a well sunlit room ..the grips would start to change huing to a yellow and leading to a dark burgundy in some cases. This is nothing the producers decided to give the officers ...was a variety of colors.

You dont see a variety of colors other than what the sunlight has changed the material inside which has been observed over the decades.
I can say for those German officers on the go and constantly being outside in some instances that there would be an eventual tone change to their grips...but not really immediate to where it turned a dark Red or Burgundy.

Some producers later in the production period have bought wooden grips and painted them white.
Other grip types were made of Ivory and also artificial amber.
The descriptions can be found in Gerrit and Dannys Heer reference on pg 23 and surely Gerrit or Danny can explain further about that topic in their book.
Just for the sake of discussion ...if different hue colored grips were sanctioned by the Third Reich..then each organization would have had their own color as did the SA and SS.
Mainly Brown and Black grips were sanctioned for the political organizations.
Luftwaffe would of had blue?
the Heer Green ?
Kriegsmarine would of had a sea green or dark blue...etc.

Yet when collecting these Heer and Luftwaffe types ...it does highlight the dagger itself giving its own persona which have attracted many collectors to seek more.

A grip that has been laying in a display or hanging on a wall....one will notice if left untouched..that the grip will be darker on the front side and lighter on the reverse. Thats proof enough what the sun and time can do to trolon.

Regards Larry

Thanks for reminding me after all these years. Funny and true story though. Opa had a white grip luft 2nd model with A Trolon Grip. He had it in a clear display case in his office since the 1960s. In the 80s I vividly remember the blade shining in the sunlight from windows. His room was well lit with windows and that sucker never turned yellow or orange or pumpkin color. We used to argue about the white grips turning colors over time. He always would tell me they made them in different colors. Guess I have always been a little mischievous, skeptical and wanted to believe Opa because of that White Luft grip always stayed white for Decades and they did make in other colors.

**Anderson** · 10-11-2021, 05:47 AM

In the Jim Atwood biography I recently began a thread on, there is a photo of a couple of boxes of Luftwaffe grips recovered from the Eickhorn factory warehouse in about 1962 (an old photo). At that stage the grips were probably about 20 years old. It is visible even in the black and white photo that where are 3 distinct shades of tones, but most were light tone. From what we know of where they were stored, direct sunlight probably wasn't an issue, but clearly there were tonal differences even with 20 year old grips. The differences may be the result in slight differences in the formulation used in making the grip material, so some were more "color fast" ,( i think that is the term) for resistance to fading/color change over time.