Himmler memorabilia

[paulcheall]

I thought members might be interested to see the following.

The item is a picture frame containing an enamelled badge, armband and hat band (?) found in Himmler’s possession when he was caught caught by the allies.

It belonged to a friend’s grandfather from Norfolk who was a collector of allsorts.

The items are in excellent condition though the badge has some very slight pitting. Sorry the picture does not display the badge as well as it could but at the moment I don’t want to remove it from the frame.

The item was bought by the grandfather from a gentleman who was in the Navy.

A note in the frame says:

“HAMBURG NAVAL BASE MAY 1945
These items were given to me by a member of our naval staff. They were articles in Himmler’s possession at the time of his suicide.
Warrant Officer Class 1
J A Melville
Armament Articifer
[signature]
3-5-93”

The latter data is not the date as my friend’s grandfather died before then so he could not have obtained the item as late as that date. Could something that looks like a date actually be anything else?

Equally, the framing was not done in 1945 – there is a decimal price pencilled on the wooden frame at the back so it is later handy work.

There is a cut out in the back of the frame to display a label on the back of the armband – showing maybe a stock code or something – 222748 – unless it was a service number that can be tracked back to Himmler?

I have approached one or two auction houses on my friend’s behalf but no-one seems interested.

In time to come we will be able to examine military records and prove that J A Melville existed, maybe even prove that he was in Hamburg around this time, maybe find something with his signature on to further substantiate the provenance. I’ve looked for him on Ancestry but no trace – tricky without a first name.

I have confidence in my friend’s own provenance so to speak, and the integrity of the grandfather, so I believe the items are genuine. Having said that, someone in another forum has suggested that as Himmler was trying to keep a low profile he would not have kept these items on him to be found if he was captured but who knows? $200-330 dollars has been suggested as a value on this item – any advances or comments please?!

Note: Just over 2 weeks after Himmler’s last meeting with Hoess he committed suicide on 23 May 1945

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Paul, while the items themselves appear original, my only slight concen being the party membership badge, I am afraid the story does not hold water. I do not mean to insult your friend's honour, but stories in familes often get distorted or dressed up. The Naval Officer may have simply made the story up when he passed them along. Your friend's Grandad may have simply recounted this is good faith.

The code number on the RZM label on the armband has nothing to do with a "serial number" in a British or US sense. It is a standard NSDAP armband, not even an SS version. Again the other armband has no SS conotation.

Himmler was captured in the uniform of the GFP, (Geheime Feldpolizei) he was not wearing any type of political uniform. He was trying to pass himself off as a member of the Army. But he made the very bad choice of the Secret Field Police who were very much on the Allied "hit list".

British Military service records are closed to all but direct family.

Buy the items, but not the story. $200 / $300 for the items would be a fair price.

Cheers, Ade.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Here are two mundane but original items taken from Himmler at the time of his capture which I had the pleasure of examining in hand. These are in possesion of the British Army's Intel Corps Museum collection.

Cheers, Ade.

[paulcheall]

Thanks for all that Ade - very interesting and fairly convincing. I'll let my pal know and see what he says. I'm really not interested in buying to be honest but I told my pal I'd see what I could find out about the items. Thanks for the view of the other items! Paul

[BOB COLEMAN]

As much as your friend would like to believe the tale, I must concur with Ade. Himmler was trying to conceal his identity and certainly would not be carrying anything that had any connection to the NSDAP. As perviously mentioned, none of the items would have been anything Himmler owned. A case of an individual attempting to enhance his ware service.

[paulcheall]

Thanks Bob - yes I guess I have to concur - wel done you guys on the detective work!
Paul

As much as your friend would like to believe the tale, I must concur with Ade. Himmler was trying to conceal his identity and certainly would not be carrying anything that had any connection to the NSDAP. As perviously mentioned, none of the items would have been anything Himmler owned. A case of an individual attempting to enhance his ware service.