I Found the Holy Grail ..................

[CBH]

The ribbon bar might help with the date of the earlier photo, if it’s an occupation medal added on the second image.

[d'alquen]

Not really the same time frame Robin. MM1985's photo is most likely 1938/39 judging from the earlier pattern shoulder straps, whereas the photo of the man from Mauthausen was probably taken during Himmler's visit in 1941.
There are a couple of photographs with the old pattern collar patches being worn at least into 1939. Perhaps partly through pride of long service and to show experience and partly through necessity. Remember that these complicated patches were always in short supply.
The image I have attached was taken in July, 1939 and shows another of these seasoned veterans of the SS-TV inspecting new recruits in Breslau.

[Putzi]

Thank you for the new pictures, the knowledge of others still amazes me.

Probably a stupid question. Apart from my early LAH cuff title, my other +30 cuff titles are related to W-SS and foreign/Danish volunteers. My question is if any cuff title was used exclusively in conjunction with the M/35 #20 collar tab and if so which which one?

PS: If anyone has the EM/NCO rank side for the M/35 collar tab (same size/dimensions) for sale then please drop me a message.

[Robin Lumsden]

There are a couple of photographs with the old pattern collar patches being worn at least into 1939. Perhaps partly through pride of long service and to show experience and partly through necessity. Remember that these complicated patches were always in short supply.
The image I have attached was taken in July, 1939 and shows another of these seasoned veterans of the SS-TV inspecting new recruits in Breslau.

Thanks again, Derek.

Looks like 'TK 23'.

Even after 50-odd years of studying and collecting this stuff, every day is still a school day for me.

Part of the fun.

[Robin Lumsden]

The ribbon bar might help with the date of the earlier photo, if it’s an occupation medal added on the second image.

Thanks Chris.

These are two similar-looking, but different, 'older' SS-T NCOs.

One has the 1914 EK2, the other doesn't.

The man on the left shows the 'odd' situation of a numbered M35 TK collar patch being worn 'unpiped' after 1936 (when it was officially discontinued).

The man on the right shows the TK collar patch you would expect to see with this type of field-grey uniform in the early WW2 timeframe.

Just posted for comparison purposes.

[d'alquen]

Putzi, in answer to your question the collar tab with a numeral 20 would have been worn in 1935 by a member of Wachtruppe Oberbayern - so that would be the cuff title.

[Putzi]

Putzi, in answer to your question the collar tab with a numeral 20 would have been worn in 1935 by a member of Wachtruppe Oberbayern - so that would be the cuff title.

Thank you once again. I'm still slightly in doubt which type of cuff title to be worn exclusively with the M/35 collar tab:

-Cuff title: Text "Oberbayern" in hand embroidered aluminum thread or grey thread for enlisted men?
-Cuff title: TK skull in hand embroidered aluminum thread or grey thread or flatwire aluminium machine woven type?

I guess, irrespective of which type, they have the black RZM tag like my early LSSAH cufff title?

Thank you for your help.

[d'alquen]

The cuff band with a skull was not introduced until 1938 so it would not be appropriate for the early style tab and yes, the "Oberbayern" band should have a black cloth RZM tag.

[Robin Lumsden]

I'm still slightly in doubt which type of cuff title to be worn.

This is the type.

[Robin Lumsden]

However, I have never seen a photo of the numbered M35 TK collar patch being worn in conjunction with an Oberbayern (or any other) cuff title. Only the M36 and later.

Eicke's early staff officers (e.g. Hans Weibrecht in the lower photo here) wore a blank cuff title and un-numbered M35 TK collar patch.