Oberbayern (Script) Cuff Title: Real or Another Time-wasting Expensive Mistake : )

[Peter II]

Hey Folks,

I just received this from a dealer and would appreciate your opinion of it. I've studied the few resources available and think it might have a chance. The examples I've seen have subtle variations to the lettering, so there apparently is some reasonable tolerance to this. The two other cuff titles with photos of rear do not have material covering the embroidery; however I have seen examples of other authentic cuff titles that do have a material backing.

Finally, note that the cuff title was previously sewn together, cut, apparently glued onto something and then re-sewn together.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[Rich Moran]

IMO, it's a good one. Well worn and looks like some display & storage abuse

[Robin Lumsden]

I just received this from a dealer. The examples I've seen have subtle variations to the lettering, so there apparently is some reasonable tolerance to this. The two other cuff titles with photos of rear do not have material covering the embroidery; however I have seen examples of other authentic cuff titles that do have a material backing.

Sorry to say, but if folks have to 'explain' a piece, that's usually a 'red flag'.

A bit like the well-worn 'transitional' and 'non-regulation' arguments.

The quality of the embroidery is lacking with this one.

Just my humble opinion.

[Rich Moran]

Sorry to say, but if folks have to 'explain' a piece, that's usually a 'red flag'.

A bit like the well-worn 'transitional' and 'non-regulation' arguments.

The quality of the embroidery is lacking with this one.

Just my humble opinion.

If that's the case it has me fooled for sure. Looking at it again I am drawing the same conclusion as I did the first time. The only 2 things I see is the overall width seems a bit off but the embroidery looks ok. I do see a couple of small areas where "picking" may have happened but the age of something that looks to have been well used. I can say one thing I am certain of, glad my days of collecting are done!

[Robin Lumsden]

I am glad my days of collecting are done!

Me too, Rich.

The best days of collecting are well past.

Now we all walk through minefields !

[Robin Lumsden]

Here's a comparison ....... just to illustrate what I mean by the relatively poorer quality of the embroidery on the item in question.

Compare these two ....... letter by letter.

[panzer2]

as been said a fake

[Peter II]

Thank you, gentlemen for your input. Here is a compilation of the Oberbayern examples of which I am aware (including the Friedrich-Berthold example used by Robin). I've included the HH version at the bottom, but wonder whether it's authentic.

Here's a link to the Eric Zentner version: Oberbayern cuff title.

I can see what Robin is saying regarding the lettering of the CT. However, notice that there is some variation to the letter "y" in Kris' example vs. the other two. The same is true for the "n" on Kris' (It's more curvy). Still, the "a" on the one I received looks totally different from all known examples. Robin, does this further confirm your conclusion? TIA

[Robin Lumsden]

Robin, does this further confirm your conclusion?

Yes, although this is just my personal opinion.

For what it's worth, I'm not too keen on the HH or KA ones either.

There are always slight differences when it comes to hand-made items, but basic standards had to be met.

This comparison shows what I mean about the relatively poor quality of the embroidery on the (upper) cuff title in question .................. the lower one is much finer in its detail.

[Peter II]

Yes, although this is just my personal opinion.

For what it's worth, I'm not too keen on the HH or KA ones either.

There are always slight differences when it comes to hand-made items, but basic standards had to be met.

This comparison shows what I mean about the relatively poor quality of the embroidery on the (upper) cuff title in question .................. the lower one is much finer in its detail.

That makes sense to me. If in fact mine is not authentic, do you think they simply used a blank authentic cuff title and embroidered it? The flatwire of the CT itself matches authentic examples. Further, the fact that it was previously tightly sewn, cut and then re-sewn (somewhat loosely) baffles me a bit. Any idea what that's all about?