SS Dog Tag Can Someone Translate Please?

[BOB COLEMAN]

After discussing my disc with Dimas, I would like to relate our discussion. May I first say that I am no expert or would even consider myself knowledgable in the area of SS I D discs. That being said, the disc came with a huge grouping of material that was the property of Sturmbannfuhrer Alfred Arnold. At the time of purchase from his sister Hedwig, there was also a release of many items that belonged to Alfred Arnold Sr., an Allgemeine SS Brigadefuhrer. The father's grouping included an early black general officer's visor cap, his medals, his Totenkopf Ring, the family guest book signed by many 3rd Reich notables, a number of photographs and an oil painting of Adolf Hitler. Arnold Jr.'s grouping was far larger. It included a gray tunic and breeches, a white piped gray schiffen, a pair of boots with the shoe trees, three framed studio portraits of Arnold in gray uniform with Totenkopf insignia. two photo albums, over 300 loose photographs, a binder holding several hundred documents and pieces of correspondence to Arnold Jr. a binder holding 76 letters on consolation to the Arnold family from many noted 3rd Recih dignataries noting the combat death of Arnold Jr., several books given to Arnold with hand written dedications from Darre, a family friend and Himmler, the urkunde for the Ehrendegen and the Totenkopf Ring, the engraved pommel for the Ehrendegen, an officer hand embroidered Thule cufftitle, all of his pre war and wartime decorations including the HJ Honor Badge, SA sports in bronze w. urkunde, DRL badge in bronze w/urkunde, Reiter badge in bronze w/ urkunde,two cased SS long service medals, cased Czech Annexation medal w/ urkunde, Iron Cross I and II, Ostmedaile, Black Wound Badge, Infantrie Sturmabzeichen and the DK in Gold, cased with the urkunde. All of the above are undoubtedly original items. That leaves us with the ID disc. In my mind, it would serve no purpose to "salt: a fake disc in with a grouping of such immense variety. From the many documents, I can confirm the blood type as shown on the disc as original.
Arnold was killed on 10 October, 1944 from a direct hit from a mortar shell. I have always considered the disc to be a copy made in period and presented to the family. i know from personal experience that the same thing was done during the Viet Nam war for the American families of the KIA who had no remains. They were not told this but it was evident to me as details were missing from the dog tags.
Therefore, I leave the decision for each of us to decide. I have posted this tag before on other forums without a negative response. The addition of it to the group does not make the group more valuable. I can say no more and respect all learned opinions.

[PHILBROWN]

what a bomb shell. i would be gutted if it were mine, and understand your defence bob, however, with respect the fonts dimas showed are not close to yours,,, they are identical . i sympathies with you indeed.

[BOB COLEMAN]

what a bomb shell. i would be gutted if it were mine, and understand your defence bob, however, with respect the fonts dimas showed are not close to yours,,, they are identical . i sympathies with you indeed.

Phil-
It does not bother me as there is so much material in this grouping, the tag is a small part of it. I once again must question why would someone salt a fake disc into a 100% original grouping of material with family provenance? The following thought hit me. Arnold was assigned after wounds to be the commander of the
2nd Battalion of Panzer Gruppe Gross, a new unit being formed in East Prussia. Dimas mentioned that a stack of blank discs were found in that area. Possibly a set of stamps were also found with the discs. It would make sense. That would give us wartime produced discs and postwar produced discs with the same dies.
I have noticed also that the discs considered faked are aged while mine is like new.
Just thinking out loud as the facts do not make any sense in the case of my disc.

[PHILBROWN]

heres my arnold book, delete if of topic

[Stewy S]

Bob,it sounds like a fantasic grouping either way. But if they fake awards such as KVK2's w/o swords,they'll fake anything. Your theory's plausible for sure. Maybe it was "added" to the group to complete it. Just a thought,as i know what some SS stuff fetches pricewise. Stewy S

[Alan M]

hi phil , that`s a wonderful dedication , could you tell me for what occasion it was written

cheers Al

[PHILBROWN]

yes al, julefest 37

[jock auld]

Guys,

While everyone is on task I have just dug out my disc tin, of roughly 100 discs 9 are blank 7 are WW1 most are Inf, 9 KM a few civil/political and only 2 SS. I was given both the SS for some of my 1157 so have cost nothing. I would be keen to hear your thoughts. Most have come out of the ground around here as a lot of troops were demobilised in this area. No doubt there are a few duffers, to be expected with something so easy to fake. I have 9 original blanks so it would not take much. I'm not keen on the zinc disc, if I had to like one of them it would be the Alu?
Regards

Jock

Don't know what happend to pics, I will try again.

[Stewy S]

Bob,is the grouping posted on here? I'd certainly like to see it. Stewy S

[Dimas]

I like Totenkopf dogtag, but other one SS Pi is imho a not good one.