Advice on Scharnhorst buckle

[Seafox]

Good day all.

I would like to ask your opinions about this Scharnhorst-Bund Deutscher Jungmannen beltbuckle.

It is for sale and a kind of high on my wish list but I am not sure. To me the style feels good, but it is privately sold and no money back or authenticity guarantee or anything.

Probably the answer is in the question but your opinions are appreciated.

Better pictures are not available I’m afraid.


Kind regards.

[weller]

Interesting buckle. When comparing to the few other examples on the forum, this buckle has a different style catch. Also, the detail of the shield, crown, wreath does not have the same sharp details. Could be wear on the buckle etc. David North and others are collectors of this type of buckle. They will know much more. Looking forward to their opinion and comments.

[Seafox]

Thanks Jeff, exactly what made me doubt my own positive feelings on it.

We’ll see what David and the others think.

Kind regards.

[kirby]

Don’t like the prongs or the catch.

[Ben Evans]

I must admit, I am not a fan of the ears/box construction or the catch, if original with the prongs I would have said Berge & Notle. Having said that the catch could be a rough Berge & Nolte one, just my 2p worth.

[Seafox]

Thanks gentlemen, for sharing your thoughts with me. I will not take my chance with this one.

Kind regards.

[David North]

This is without a doubt, one of the most interesting Scharnhorstbund buckles that I have ever encountered. In fact, I cannot recall ever having seen one with reverse detail like this before.

We have within the Forum a high number of remarkable threads with regards to the Scharnhorst buckle and which support superb and otherwise unseen examples. Good luck though with the so called Forum search facility which unfortunately, remains near useless.

A slightly convoluted response, however here goes.

Image 1 - the obverse of what many would regard as a traditional form Scharnhorstbund buckle.

Image 2 - the reverse.

Image 3 - a comparison of the roundel to the buckle which started the thread and that by Image 1 and I would suggest that they are same in every detail.

Image 4 - the obverse of an unusual DJ buckle.

Image 5 - the reverse.

Image 6 - a comparison of the reverse to the SHB buckle which started the thread and the unusual DJ buckle. For each, the brazed on catch look remarkably the same, as do the pin shrouds and the claws. The pin shrouds appear to bear the same tool marks and also, the dreadfully rough and raw cut of the claw tips are consistent.

Image 7 - a comparison of the pin shrouds and the claws, for all 3 buckles and again, they do appear to be alike.

I understand the concern that Kirby has shown, however in my opinion, the Scharnhorst buckle which started this thread is original, albeit with an unorthodox method of construction and which possibly indicates it having been made by a “cottage industry” concern. Of a very minor note, I do so like the soldering technique to the fold over brads on the reverse of the buckle which started the thread.

All highly subjective and in my opinion of course and I would greatly welcome any comments.

Having said that, I would not recommend this buckle to a collector who is trying to secure a single and illustrative example of the Scharnhorstbund Koppelschloß. Instead, one as shown by images 1 and 2 would I think, be a more prudent choice.

Regards and best wishes,

David

[Seafox]

Hello David, I apologise for taking so much time to reply on your thorough and highly appreciated post. The job dragged me into late hours and not much time off.

I must say the buckle keeps me occupied too. I like it. As you said, when aiming at collecting one example of every type of buckle it may not be the right one, but knowing myself I will probably get myself involved in collecting nearly unobtainable buckles especially from Weimar

- - ------- - -

And something went wrong and I posted before being ready...

[Seafox]

Something went completely wrong, I am sorry.

To return to the subject; I will probably collect more from Weimar era Kriegervereine and all kinds of Bunde so that makes me rethink my opinion on this buckle and probably decide to buy it after all.
I am now suddenly completely into SA buckles for example.

Thank you for the time and effort to share your thoughts and examples to compare David!

I will update when I know more and when decided to buy or not.


Kind regards.

[David North]

...and probably decide to buy it after all...

All I was clumsily suggesting Joost is that for a "first" Scharnhorstbund buckle, the one that you are eyeing up is not a good example. As a variation and to add to other Scharnhorst buckles it is great. Perhaps worth remembering that this is not a particularly rare or even to many, desirable buckle. Conventional examples of this buckle may be sourced without too much difficulty, however your choice of course.

Regards and best wishes,

David