Sword belonging to Bergen Belson Commander

[Anderson]

It's an authentic Heer sabre for an officer of either Artillery or Cavalry (according to maker catalogues). I would say pre-Third Reich, certainly post 1910, but the grip appears to me to be celluloid which was being used from time of First World War. So really could either be made late Imperial era to Weimar Republic period.
There may be a maker mark under the langet, worth a look. Actually my late 1930's WKC catalogue doesn't show a Lion head sword without the Nazi eagle, though perhaps could be ordered. But my sense is it is earlier.

[Frogprince]

It's an authentic Heer sabre for an officer of either Artillery or Cavalry (according to maker catalogues). I would say pre-Third Reich, certainly post 1910, but the grip appears to me to be celluloid which was being used from time of First World War. So really could either be made late Imperial era to Weimar Republic period.
There may be a maker mark under the langet, worth a look. Actually my late 1930's WKC catalogue doesn't show a Lion head sword without the Nazi eagle, though perhaps could be ordered. But my sense is it is earlier.

Anderson, I don't recall seeing a date with my incomplete WKC copy, but it does show (besides standard Eagle/Swastika TR era types) a No.29 with a wreath on the langet over two crossed sabers. I'm also not sure when/where to place this saber as it seems to me to have a little too much white residue showing instead of what is clearly green verdigris. Maybe it's just leftover excess polish, although without a better look I can't rule out that it may be something else. Best Regards, Fred

[Anderson]

Actually I would say the maker is WKC, that plain ferrule on the grip and other features does suggest WKC to me.

[ireichit]

Apparently 4 commando passed through belsen , on there way to luneburg . Not sure on the spelling , it appears from what I am told they went to a castle on a hill where they acquired the swords and other bits . I have the vets name but I can not say on here as I believe it may brake certain codes of conduct .

[ireichit]

I forgot to mention the swords are kept in a shed where he sprays american cars and what you can see is paint dust , I am sure the handle is black without wire braid and also has odd eyes .

[Paul D]

Apparently 4 commando passed through belsen , on there way to luneburg . Not sure on the spelling , it appears from what I am told they went to a castle on a hill where they acquired the swords and other bits . I have the vets name but I can not say on here as I believe it may brake certain codes of conduct .

When Belsen was liberated in April 1945 4 Commando were at Bergen Op Zoom in the Netherlands so nowhere near the Concentration camp , they didn't arrive in Germany at Recklinghausen in the Ruhr until June 1945 where they Guarded two large POW Camps so maybe the Sword came from there . 1st Commando Brigade passed Belsen in mid april on the way to Luneburg but non of the units 3, 6 Army Commando and 45 , 46 RM Commando entered the Camp .

In truth half the British Army seems to have claimed to have liberated or been at Belsen when in reality units of 11 Armoured Division were first at the camp which was then taken over by RA , RASC and medical units .

[ireichit]

I bow to your knowledge, I was told he went through belen so maybe I have have the wrong unit I assumed it was 4 commando as I thought they were with 1 commando , but I do know without a doubt he got it from a castle on a hill , could well have been luburge. He may have mixed the story up when he's uncle mentioned belsen ,he was a young boy then .

[Larry C]

Well the sword itself has been identified mostly to a WKC model No. 29 and in very rough condition.

Provenance of the sword belonging or came from the cabinet of the Belsen Commander to ...not too sure who picked it up along the way with mixed stories. Thankyou Paul for your research on the liberators and who was actually there.

The Sword is period authentic with no known original owner as is with many Edged Weapon types.
No disrespect Irei ...with just broken memory of the youth and lack of proof ..the sword does not stand a chance of being owned by a commandant commander ..which it may be possible it may have ...who knows but the community agrees only on the sword itself and producer.

You do not have to give the Vets name ..that is soley your decision and we respect that ..but you also must respect what has been said here in this thread in its finality with sword and story.

Again no disrespect but we hear alot of these same stories with different characters involved .......We have to examine the artifact first and provenance second.

Thankyou for sharing your sword and if anymore information comes to light on your Uncle that you may want to share ..the thread is open to further discussion.

Regards Larry

[Anderson]

The story of the finding should be researched further, it may have been that the veteran the poster is referring to was trained with the Commandos but at the time was serving in a behind the lines SAS team. I read about such an operation in a book on the SAS, evidently they parachuted into France in March 1945 to link up with local resistance fighters and cause havoc behind German lines. The story of a SAS jeep mounted unit arriving first at Belsen on 14 April 1945 was detailed in the book and covered in this news article. It could be possible the posters contact was with them. Something he could research further. Many SAS men had trained with the Commandos.

The day the SAS entered Hell at Belsen | Daily Mail Online

[ireichit]

Thanks for everyone's input , I did assume that the sword has no province but do not disbelieve my mates story but as you say a vet can say anything to a young boy and can get misread . Thanks again