Flotten-Kriegsabzeichen - Rudolf Souval wartime or postwar?

[martinw]

I have to think this is a wartime compatible badge,looking at the reverse hardware and colour of the basemetal.

if i still collected KM awards i would not have a problem having this one in my collection.

Regards,Martin.

[MAP]

Thanks for the feedback Martin

So what do you collect now?

[martinw]

Hi Map,

I don't collect awards anymore,with the exception of the occasional Hilfskreuzer award.
I have about 40 HK awards.
Now i just collect photo's showing the HK awards in wear and HK award documents.

Cheers,Martin.

[Watchdog]

It's as clear as mud gents, Some Souval badges have barrels that touch the wreath, some don't.

So where does this leave us? Does anybody have the explanation for this? Is it a result of two different dies or is it something else?

I had always thought it a faily good recognition feature but now it seems it isn't

Regards

Mark

[martinw]

I have no answer Mark.
All i can say is that i have seen accepted wartime compatible examples in both forms.

Cheers,Martin.

[Danmark]

Gents, i was often told many years back that the post war Souval "cutout catch" was deliberately used because in many cases it was the only distinguishing feature to tell the age as original wartime dies were still in use......

[paulscoot]

Very true, but I wonder exactly when did Souval start using the cut out catch? Regards ,Paul

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

As you know, for Souval's output for the most part we deal in grey and black, with almost no white. "Wartime compatible" refers to construction and finish that is compatible with Souval's wartime production but blends seamlessly into post-war leftovers and assembly -- this is the "grey" and we can't tell them apart. The "black" are all the patently post-war badges which include the ones with the sheet metal cut-out catches mentioned previously.

As far as "wartime-compatible" Souval Fleet badges go, I've classified them as FC# 2.4.1, 2.4.2 and 2.4.3:
2.4.1 - zinc, marked "R.S.", smooth outlines, narrow-flanged sheet metal hinge soldered within raised oval outline, long pointed round-wire pin, "question mark-shaped" round-wire catch
2.4.2 - zinc, marked "R.S.", rectangular sheet metal hinge soldered over raised oval outline, long pointed round-wire pin, round-wire catch on round base plate
2.4.3 - zinc, marked "R.S.", wide pin setup (post-war?), round-wire catch on round base plate

Here are two examples of each type for reference. I favour the 2.4.1 with the smooth outlines and question mark-shaped catch as the earliest and most likely wartime construction (they're less common as well). The 2.4.2 is by far the most common variant which is the type in the opening post. Some of the 2.4.2 examples have a bit of additional hand-cutting under the eagle's wings and separating the gun barrels from the wreath but otherwise are not that different from their siblings so I never gave them a separate classification number. The 2.4.3 look suspicious to me for post-war assembly and finish but I've given them the benefit of the doubt to stay in the classification system.

I've also attached two examples of post-war Souvals with the cut-out sheet metal catch typical for their later post-war production, probably late 50's early 60's. By this time they were not using the original dies and were casting their own designs and others so the R.S. mark was lost from the reverse, but they sometimes stamped them with a small "L/58" for good measure.

Best regards,
---Norm