Mystery Trench Art WWI German Helmet 368 PRUSSIAN - Help?

**Dave Pass** · 09-01-2018, 09:47 PM

Appealing to forum members to help decipher this WWI German Helmet- From a recent estate, with no one alive having any knowledge, helmet is period painted, I assume by a German soldier, but it bears the names of three U.S. Soldiers inside with a date of 4/11/19. Helmet is without liner, painted with a black banner across the front "368 PRUSSIAN" with cockades above and below, along with "ARGONNE". There is an Imperial crown on right side, skull with spike among grave markers "GOT MIT UNS" on right rear. Back has a large banner "CHAMPAGNE", and an Imperial Eagle at left rear. Red and black battle axes to each side, and a large Iron Cross on helmet crown. Inside in white paint "LT. E. S. LYNE 4-11-19", "ABNER GREEN- FRANCE- 4-11-19, "J. E. CAF.... (ILLEGIBLE) 8-14-18". There also appears to be in black the orginal German soldier's name. There's a great story here, but I don't have enough knowledge to unravel it. Lt. E.S. Lyne served as a signal officer72nd INF., 36th DIV.- beyond that I'm lost. Exterior art I'd guess to have been done by a German soldier, but haven't come across anything like this before. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dave

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-01-2018 09:47 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**MAP** · 09-01-2018, 10:07 PM

Welcome Dave.

Once you get approved we will be able to see your photos and hopefully we can help you out.

Actually for the most viability, it is best you post the helmet in this section of the forum (see link below)

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/imper...ustro-hungary/

**MAP** · 09-01-2018, 11:37 PM

This is US trench art. Not German.

On my cell phone now so can't give advice as to whether it is a recent creation or period done.

If period, it is great!

**Ethan** · 09-02-2018, 12:02 AM

I am by no means an expert in the field of trench art but the art looks old to me.

**MAP** · 09-02-2018, 04:16 AM

Looking at it on my PC.

Nothing is screaming fake but this is one I would really want to hold in my hand and look at it very very closely.

For me, if this is legit, I would have this front and center of my small WW1 collection!

Hopefully some of our learned colleagues here with better expertise than I will see this and chime in.

**Dave Pass** · 09-02-2018, 01:11 PM

Thanks MAP. Art work is unquestionably WWI period. Attaching some photos that provide closer detail of the artwork. Helmet is from a recent estate and was piled in amongst 'stuff'. Unfortunately, no one there knew anything about it's history. Really hoping someone can unravel the story on this on. Guess what I keep stumbling over is why would an American paint a Prussian Unit on the front? Thanks

**MAP** · 09-02-2018, 01:49 PM

Can't see the new photos for some reason. There are large numbers of outstanding fakes out there so we always verify the item and not the story. Anything with camo or with non regulation paint need to be studied very closely.

With a bit of digging / research I'm sure at least part of the story can be unraveled.

First, the America's are certainly well known for painting helmets with vet art, typically after the war. Not the germans. The dates inside align with this probably something done while they were waiting to be shipped home.

Second, the US fought in the later battles near Champagne / Argonne most notably in the July 1918 Champagne-Marne German Offensive, (the American 26th, 3rd, 28th and 42nd Infantry Divisions and the 369th Infantry Regiment). In looking at this and other battles, you can probably confirm which German units match up to the 368 Prussian reference.

I suspect the "artist" in this case was Abner Green as he certainly has an artistic signature

**Dave Pass** · 09-02-2018, 05:14 PM

Pictures still state 'waiting approval'- I will repost if they don't load soon. Thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding this helmet. Yes Abner Green did have an signature worthy of the artist and may have been the painter of this helmet. I think you suggested I move this post to a different section, but I've yet to figure out how to do this. Fear I'm more comfortable with slate tablets and smoke signals. Dave

**rbminis** · 09-02-2018, 06:02 PM

Hello Dave and welcome to the forum!

As this is more of an introductory section, I can only suggest that you start a thread in the discussions part of the forum and post your photos there.
I have been approving photos posted here for new members so that they can be directed to the correct part of the forum for the item that they are interested in learning about.
Regards,
Ralph.