Tam O Shanter - Argyll & Sutherland?

[Watchdog]

Attachment 1639622

Pulled the Tam out again and this is the inside. Thank you Jb4046, you had got it. Great skills, there are definitely 4 holes along the top of the inside for the Royal Regiment of Scotland.

Thank you all for your interest.

And no extra two east/west at the mid-line so that kind of dates it.

Old badge holes are always a great help, usually showing what it couldn't be but sometimes showing what it must be!

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

I do have a few of my dads cap badges and tos in a box in my room but I don’t want to make him feel old by posting them on a antiques forum essentially

Well, I commend your sensitivity John but I think I may have shared some of your dad's timeline albeit that I was probably a little in front of him and if my son was inclined to post any of my "old army junk" on a site like this I would actually be rather pleased. He's a matelot by the way!

Anyway, doesn't something need to be 100yrs old to be considered antique? I'm OK with "vintage" myself. Just saying!

Ask your dad I think you will be surprised and I'm sure we would love to see what you have.

Regards

Mark

[Jb4046]

Here is a very quick pic of the grouping. I think there is another TOS somewhere but I can’t remember where. The Gordon highlander glengarry is a modern one my dad had but I use it for my ww1 relatives cap badge. The Gordon highlander cap badge in the middle is my dads one. It is quite worn down due to brasso cleaning over the years! ( plus it’s easier to clean once smoothed out like that)

Only thing missing here is my own AUOTC TOS but that’s at my flat right now

As I said there are a few pieces missing here I think

Edit - I also have my grandads Royal Navy visor but that’s unrelated to the thread!

[BlackCat1982]

Thank you Jb4046, your group photo confirms that the safety pin inside my Tam is "appropriate" for holding the Pom Pom on the top!

[Jb4046]

It’s quite necessary to use one! A few mates in the otc have had their pom pom fall off.

Here is the other side of the cap badge just for reference to any observers of this thread

[Watchdog]

Thank you Jb4046, your group photo confirms that the safety pin inside my Tam is "appropriate" for holding the Pom Pom on the top!

Yes the safety pin is pretty much the norm. I have it good authority from many "Jocks" I encountered during my own service that the main reason for attaching the toorie, the spelling varies regionally (don't let a Jock hear you call it a "Pom Pom" cheerleaders have those ) in that fashion is to ease cleaning etc. Although the TOS tends to be worn more in the style of a beret these days it used to be that each regiment would shape it according to their own style and this often included starching and pressing the crown which was made much simpler by removing and re-attaching the toorie and a safety pin lends itself perfectly to the purpose rather than re-sewing it each time.

Regards

Mark

PS Here's an example of an FHF Fusilier from just before formation of RRS

[Jb4046]

For styling our TOS it was just a case of dunking the TOS in warm water and flattening down the areas you need! To avoid it looking like a chefs hat! Different times

My dad has told me that the TOS in that group pic is an old AUOTC one and not a Gordon highlanders one ( same tartan) . His original Gordon’s TOS is long gone but it was styled pretty differently to my beret style TOS. I would include pictures of my one in wear and my dads in wear but I will leave the face reveal for the future!

[Watchdog]

[QUOTE=Jb4046;2285242]

Inadvertently, this pic actually serves as a useful comparison of manufacture style.

As John says, the glengarry with the Gordons badge is relatively modern one but compare the dicing to the one adjacent with the RRS cap badge. Notice how the RRS item has a very pronounced "machine made" look to it. Of course they are both made using machines but the RRS one was produced with much more advanced technology and it is clearly visible in the picture. In hand it sticks out like a sore thumb!

Now look at the two TOS bonnets.

The one on the right with the Gordon tartan patch. You can see that the patch is simply a square of woollen tartan cloth attached with a single line of stitching.

The one on the left with the RRS badge has a tartan patch made as a separate "badge" (not a piece of woollen cloth) with a merrowed edge which is attached with a single line of stitching just inside the merrowed edge.

In between these two variations there was a period before the specific badge backings were produced when a variant appeared which consisted of the woollen patch being attached with a zig-zag stitch which resembled the eventual manufactured merrowed edge item. In hand it is quite clear that the former is woollen cloth and the latter is not. See the attached picture of a piece of Cameron woollen cloth and a Royal Stewart manufactured patch (the size difference is not relevant).

As for the bonnets themselves they are both the type made by regimental tailors etc before the current factory made type with black polycotton linings and NATO stock number labels. The one on the right has a standard khaki drill lining to the crown whilst the other has a piece of Gordon tartan which was likely a very local "twist" applied for reasons of "esprit de corps" but in any case by recycling old kilt material.

These things could be a subject on their own!



Regards

Mark