CITO Sawback Bayonet

**gamw99** · 04-20-2022, 10:04 PM

Hi all,

Just picked up this WW1 Sawback Butcher's bayonet. It's a CITO manufacture and has no royal cyphers or dates on the spine (which appears to be consistent with some other sawback CITOs) but there is what appears to be a "7" marking. There are two inspection markings on the pommel. Someone has applied what looks like a shelac of sorts over the handle assumably to preserve it post-war. Blade is a little crooked (presumably from the bent scabbard).

Any opinions on the originality of the teeth? As well as the 7 marking on the spine?

I've seen a saw-back CITO with an "8" marking that was not a date stamp on the spine before. Perhaps an inspection marking?

Any opinions appreciated.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 04-20-2022 10:04 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Anderson** · 04-20-2022, 11:08 PM

These CITO S 98/05 are interesting. It seems the the trade mark belongs to Ernst Pack Sohne company who were a wholesaler of this model (private purchase side arm) between 1915-17. The company also was manufacturing the same bayonet in 1916 under the Pack Ohliger & Cie name. These CITO branded S 98/05 would be private purchase as walking out side arms, but some have been seen with Imperial royal cypher. The saw looks authentic, all CITO were sawbacks I believe. The number on the spine, I don't think anyone knows for sure what it represents. After 1918 the Pack Ohliger company closed and business continued under E.Pack & Sohne.

**gamw99** · 04-23-2022, 04:42 AM

by Anderson

These CITO S 98/05 are interesting. It seems the the trade mark belongs to Ernst Pack Sohne company who were a wholesaler of this model (private purchase side arm) between 1915-17. The company also was manufacturing the same bayonet in 1916 under the Pack Ohliger & Cie name. These CITO branded S 98/05 would be private purchase as walking out side arms, but some have been seen with Imperial royal cypher. The saw looks authentic, all CITO were sawbacks I believe. The number on the spine, I don't think anyone knows for sure what it represents. After 1918 the Pack Ohliger company closed and business continued under E.Pack & Sohne.

Hi Anderson,

Thanks for the information! Really happy with the new acquisition and glad to hear your thoughts on it

**AndyB** · 05-02-2022, 11:20 AM

This is repeated error by Carter and on later publication Cito is Bicycle fabric of Coln, has nothing to do with E.Pack.
Cito Fahrradenwerk Koeln.

**Anderson** · 05-07-2022, 12:12 AM

Haven't seen that bit of research Andy, (you got a source?) but a Bicycle maker is no Cutler. Under the wartime production regime, where every business was roped into armament production, I would expect new comers would likely source the blades at least, if not the component parts from established cutlers. We commonly see that with the S98/05 with the "double maker" mark bayonets. Simply a contractor/sub contractor relationship, that was common in Solingen, where competing firms would supply parts to each other. With this understanding we can't dismiss the E Pack connection, as they may well be the maker of the blade, unless you have evidence "Cito the Bike maker" made the blades as well.

**AndyB** · 05-07-2022, 07:52 AM

You should ask Sleepwalker, and look at period documents, offcoarse majority of the bayonet finisher were never focused on blank rohlings production, they were prepared by special firms, E. Pack was dont raised prior 1922 so this is one of errors from Carter and not the only one. Mundlos was a sewing maschine producer and various others didnt have a bayonet production. Elite Diamant WW2 was a bicycle firm. Is possible Cito got the blanks from Solingen area but finished the piece complete.Offcoarse Simson and WKC made bicycles even edged weapons producers. Is already clear that Pack dont have any roots to Koeln area.
From official site:Während des Ersten Weltkriegs wurden Produkte für die Reichswehr gefertigt.

**gamw99** · 09-13-2022, 03:59 PM

Sorry that I am beyond late to reply. But thank you both for your opinions on the bayonet! Always much appreciated.

**Anderson** · 09-14-2022, 06:59 AM

" E. Pack was dont raised prior 1922" not quite sure what you mean here Andy. Pack Ohlinger & Co (P.O.&Co) sometimes "POCO" was founded in 1908 and the first military bayonet they made was the S 98/05 in 1916 & 1917. The P.O & Co company closed in 1918 at war end and re-opened almost immediately as E.Pack & Sohne.

**AndyB** · 09-16-2022, 07:44 AM

E.Pack dont exist on german war period bayonets, never occured one.So even Oehliger was immediately renamed the bayonets of WW1 never found with E.Pack Sn TM.
But the main error repeated by Carter and other sources is the link Cito with E.Pack.

**Anderson** · 09-16-2022, 08:45 AM

Same company individuals involved. Ernst Pack took on the company post war, when partner Ohlinger dropped out, company renamed after WW1 as E.Pack & Sohne. Never said E.Pack trade name was on WW1 bayonets, but the company principal was, under another name (P.O.& Co.) Simple really.