Sword identification please

**JanisandJaz** · 07-26-2023, 06:59 PM

Hi,
Thank you for letting us join the forum. I have a sword that was passed down to me. I have made no attempt to clean it as I wasn’t sure that I should. My Grandson and I wondered if anyone could help us with identifying it and how to take care of it. The sword was in my grgrandfather’s attic in Rochester, New York and the “story” was it was from the Civil War. We would like to know why the numbers were crossed out. The sword blade at the top has P.D.L. on one side and a crown with what looks like an IR beneath it. The sword's hilt has 102.R.6 crossed out with 12.T.F.5.94 beside it (not crossed out) and on the end of the hilt a very tiny crown with what looks an “I.” under it. The sword cover has a brass top with 101 L.I. and a very tiny crown and “ I.” underneath. There are some letters and numbers crossed out. They appear to read S.4.R.E. 2. 00. ?. They are hardly legible.
Any information would be most welcome. Thank you.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-26-2023 06:59 PM

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**Kilian** · 07-26-2023, 09:33 PM

It is a German what they call a Faschinenmesser. The maker is P.D.L. which is Peter Daniel Lüneschloss of Solingen, Germany. The crown over what looks like JR on the blade would refer to Johan von Sachsen, king of Saxony from 1854 to 1874. I cannot tell you exactly which model it is as there were different models of Faschinenmesser in the 1840’s all with small differences, e.g. M1845, M1849, which look all a bit similar. And I’m not an expert on German 19th century Faschinenmesser.

It carries various German regimental markings.

There is a good chance that this thing was made before the US civil war and it could have been sold to the US for use by one of the parties. If we can decipher the regimental markings and find out when these regiments existed this might help further rougly date the piece. If we find a German regiment that did not exist at the time of the US civil war, that would tell us the civil war story cannot be true.

Regimental markings were crossed out when the weapon moved to another regiment or unit, when they received a new stamp for the new regiment.

Don’t clean it, just preserve it, and DON’T polish the brass.

**JanisandJaz** · 07-27-2023, 01:16 AM

Thank you Kilian,
You have given us a fantastic amount of information. I will make sure to make a record of the information so we will have it for the next generation. We will leave the sword as is and not do any polishing. Thank you very much for the very interesting information. My Grandson can do some research on the names you have given us. We appreciate your reply.

**Anderson** · 07-27-2023, 11:06 AM

It's been issued and re-issued to various units during it's service life. For example 102.R.6 in the German practice would indicate 102nd Regiment, Company 6.
12.T.F.5.94 is 12th Train-Bataillon, Fuhrparkkolonne (Supply column) 5, weapon 94. The other mark L.I. could indicate "Landwehr" or Landsturm. I believe these short swords have a practical tool function as well as self defence weapon. Nice to see the scabbard, as leather scabbards from that era often haven't survived. Probably an M1849 and dates from the 1860's.

**Kilian** · 07-27-2023, 02:18 PM

The 102nd Infantry Regiment was a Saxon regiment, founded well before the civil war. I do not know when this format of marking was introduced.

The train battalion (supply/logistics) was part of the 12th (1st Royal Saxon) Army Corps, founded on April 4, 1867.

101L could be the 101st Landwehr infantry regiment, also Saxon, which would in my view be WW1.

I’m not sure about S.4.R.E. But it could also be Saxon and R.E. usually stands for Ersatz-Infantry-Regiment, which I also believe to be WW1.

Maybe someone with more expert knowledge of German regimental markings and the formats used over time will chime in and confirm or correct me.

Based on the markings it is my view that this Faschinenmesser remained into Saxon service until WW1 and did not participate in the US civil war. It might have seen service during the Franco-Prussian War.

Indeed, a Faschinenmesser was primarily a tool, used for cutting wood and clearing bush e.g. to prepare firing positions, like a machete.

And yes, take care of the scabbard. Over time the leather dries out and looses its strength and stitchings can fall apart. Handle it as a fragile item. Professionals will probably use Ren Wax, but any light oil or acid free vaseline will do to protect the blade. Do not leave fingerprint marks on the blade as these will corrode and become permanent stains. I would not touch the brass, as the patina on it will protect it, but best not to handle with bare hands. Efforts to protect the leather will probably make it worse. Store it in a dry place at moderate temperature and out of direct sunlight. An attic is not the best place to keep this.

**AndyB** · 07-27-2023, 06:04 PM

This is a saxon Faschinenmesser M1845 when i remember corectly, the JR proof is for Johann Rex Saxon King ruled post 1856, so the date should be since this date, i assume the striked units on scabbards are of older data as typical german manual units stamped since 1877, so the explanation could be harder to explain, the other units could be so as declared here. Evidently the scabbard and FM is a missmatch as no one of unit is matching here.