East German NVA M56 helmets

[Jack]

(1) I own three "first pattern" East German M56's with the three tiny external rivets, WWII-style liner, and Y-chinstrap. (The earliest is stamped "57II.") Nothing startling so far.
(2) But see Marzetti's small photo of an "early" M56 with the WWII liner, single-piece chinstrap, and large external rivets (I think).
(3) But wait...see Brendon's Helmets site showing an "M56" with a WWII-dated liner, a single-strand WWII-dated chinstrap, and three large external rivets fairly high up.
(4) Best yet...just received this "M56" in the mail - see photos. It has the single-piece chinstrap, the WWII-style liner, three large external rivets (but much lower than Brendon's), a steel grey dome, and rough dark green exterior paint. The sole markings are in the left flange: "7C' (no, not 57C) and a strange symbol above it that looks like a backwards 'C' next to a 'P.''
What in the world does Brendon have and what do I have? As a 2014 thread implied, do we have the rare B/II helmets reissued in late 1945? If they are not that rare, then what? Thanks.

[Watchdog]

Hmm, not the best picture but I am going to suggest that the marking in the first picture read;

II
06
70

Which translates as; Size 2, June, 1970. Of cousre this would be totally wrong for such a variant as this purports to be. The characters are simply poor (oblique)strikes which is something seen accross M56 production. This is really enough to stop the discussion for me.

I don't claim to be a subject matter expert but I have been fairly interested in DDR NVA militaria sing serving in Berlin during the '80s. However, part of our purpose here in the Forum is to discuss and learn. So;

The theory of it being a recycled B/II falls at the first fence because it has the later turned rim or flange as per all M56 variants.

The chinstrap looks like it was made last week therefore if it were original it was added much later if you accept the apparent age/wear of the rest.

The wear and staining of the liner looks very artificial to me.

Monitor colour rendition is notoriously susceptible to variation but the colour and finish of the shell look like fairly late NVA grey to me albeit not the final light grey.

The position of the rivits is I believe a moot point given the other factors above.

Personally I would not want this one other than as an illustration or "mock up" of a rare original and it would have to be very cheap, certainly no more than a very late M56/74.

I would love to be wrong and say that you have found something of a treasure but sadly I don't believe that to be the case. I do hope it was not expensive (as an original would surely be!)

Regards

Mark

[Greg Pickersgill]

I am not particularly well-informed about the M56 (I know and have examples of all the usual variants plus the arguable late-issue 'flat top') but my immediate impression was that Jack's was a not particularly good attempt to recreate or even fake a B/II.

HOWEVER - the one illustrated on Brendon's site - East Germany M56 I - Brendon's Helmets - is near as dammit identical to Jack's and does look like the real thing (ie an early M56) and info from Baer's book (which I have checked in the original and the translation seems correct in this matter) reinforces that, so I do feel there's a bit more to it. Possibly something so simple as someone re-creating a a very early M56. I dunno boss. Interesting.

[Watchdog]

I am not particularly well-informed about the M56 (I know and have examples of all the usual variants plus the arguable late-issue 'flat top') but my immediate impression was that Jack's was a not particularly good attempt to recreate or even fake a B/II.

HOWEVER - the one illustrated on Brendon's site - East Germany M56 I - Brendon's Helmets - is near as dammit identical to Jack's and does look like the real thing (ie an early M56) and info from Baer's book (which I have checked in the original and the translation seems correct in this matter) reinforces that, so I do feel there's a bit more to it. Possibly something so simple as someone re-creating a a very early M56. I dunno boss. Interesting.

I agree it is an interesting item and as far as "fakes" go it looks the part and is very likely to convince the uniformed.

As far as I can see neither Baer book references an M56 with either this type of chinstrap or the WWII type split rivits as were used in the M44 liner system fitted to the B/II. Neither does he seem to indicate whether such a helmet was produced or entered service. In "The History of the German Steel Helmet 1916 - 1945" he does refer to the M44 liner fitting the B/II shell but this appears to be an extract from proposals rather than a statement of actual implementation. There is a picture on page 402 of a sentry of the Wachtregiment at the Neuewache memorial in Berin with a caption staing that "The East German Army adopted the WWII tested Model B/II, the Berlin Honour Guard at left wears the current model" which seems somewhat incongruous. If the B/II were taken into service by the NVA even only as a trial item then, given the size of the NVA at that time I would have expected a trial at at least battalion level so why would it be so difficult (read impossible) to find a genuine item now?
Baer is the only credible source that I know of concerning the process of development. So, if Baer does not evidence the "1st type M56 with the M44 liner (I might be going blind but I can't see it in either book) who does?

The one shown on Brendon's Helmets really does look the part I agree but no shell stamp is shown nor real detail of what is behind the liner leather. The only marking shown there is the size stamp (57 in a circle) and I am not too sure about that. It does exhibt an apparently wartime dated split pin which would make sense if wartime surplus were used (highly likely at the time in question) however, as we know the market is awash with copies of these.

So, yes an interesting piece indeed and I don't know either apart from the fact that in my opinion it is an out and out fantasy piece because of the shell stamp if nothing else

Regards

Mark

[BlackCat1982]

Have to agree with Watchdog on this one, the helmet stamps date this to 1970. The liner has that artificial age feel to it, any markings on the aluminium liner band itself?

[Sleepwalker]

Hello,

these helmets are intended to imitate the German test helmet Thale 2B.

But they are fakes.

In any case, an NVA helmet was taken as the basis and tinkered with it.

You can always find these helmets on ebay.

[ogpsycho]

@Sleepwalker

100% agreement

[Jack]

Well, gentlemen. Thanks you for your kind advice. I've only been scammed twice in 10 years (to my knowledge). If my wife and I had been able to rdecipher the shell stamps, it would have been a "no sale." But I was intrigued enough to hope for the best. Guess they simply drilled holes in a smooth shell and added the liner and chinsttrap from someplace. BTW: $300 from a Taiwan seller on eBay. Ergo, buyer beware. Thanks again.

[BlackCat1982]

Well, gentlemen. Thanks you for your kind advice. I've only been scammed twice in 10 years (to my knowledge). If my wife and I had been able to rdecipher the shell stamps, it would have been a "no sale." But I was intrigued enough to hope for the best. Guess they simply drilled holes in a smooth shell and added the liner and chinsttrap from someplace. BTW: $300 from a Taiwan seller on eBay. Ergo, buyer beware. Thanks again.

Ouch! If the description is false then I would hope you get you money back on it.

[Jack]

Two points everyone missed: (1) Brendon did not comment on any stamps in the shell of his helmet, just the liner type, chinstrap, and pins; (2) a careful scrutiny of his and my helmet reveals the usual small lip or curve at the rim - the same lip that is on all M56 lids. A close look at photos of the B11 shows NO such lip. The curve of the B11 goes straight down front, back, and sides. So perhaps a telltale clue for all buyers. P.S. Through the kindness of eBay, I am purportedly getting a full refund, likely thanks to the estute comments of the folks on this forum. And I have a steel souvernir of my folly.