Need Help, Belgian M1 clone

[Watchdog]

I'm inclined to go with the idea that either an individual or a whole unit simply removed the rim(s). Or you have one where it just fell off. Both seem unlikely but less so than a special production run of rimless shells. And there can't be many of them either - there are plenty of Euro M1 fans (me for example) and no-one has reported seeing one.

I think I'll try contacting Walter Jacobs, who is preparing a book on Belgian helmets. we'll see.

Just as an aside on helmet rims in general. They do come off occasionally.

Whilst training recruits my fellow instructors and I would give an effects demonstration with the "Thunderflash" pyrotechnic which was a large firework used to simulate explosions.

It was a long established practice in which a MkIV helmet minus liner was placed on a hard surface and a Thunderflash ignited underneath it. The resulting explosion would propel the helmet 50 - 60 feet into the air thus giving a demonstration that these were not harmless "party poppers".

On more than a few occasions the rim was blown clean off the helmet which is why it was always best to use a spare helmet.

Not an M1 I know but a very similar rim design and an illustration of the idea of rims becoming detached.

I hope this is of interest.

Regards

Mark

[jimmykoala]

I'm inclined to go with the idea that either an individual or a whole unit simply removed the rim(s). Or you have one where it just fell off. Both seem unlikely but less so than a special production run of rimless shells. And there can't be many of them either - there are plenty of Euro M1 fans (me for example) and no-one has reported seeing one.

I think I'll try contacting Walter Jacobs, who is preparing a book on Belgian helmets. we'll see.

Thank you very much. I like to know if Walter does know more. I really hope to find out what type of helmet this is.

[Tinhat]

Without being contentious, I don't disagree with rims popping off - I also have fond memories of the MkIII/flashbang demo and wondering why is the instructor having us stand so far away - I would have thought there would be a witness mark of the rim being fitted, particularly at the back where it was welded.

Being a police helmet is it more feasible that they were issued with helmets that did not meet requirements for military use and the lack rim is the identifier.

Steve.

[Watchdog]

Without being contentious, I don't disagree with rims popping off - I also have fond memories of the MkIII/flashbang demo and wondering why is the instructor having us stand so far away - I would have thought there would be a witness mark of the rim being fitted, particularly at the back where it was welded.Steve.

Yep, as I say, just an aside to illustrate that the rims can come loose without extraordinary cause!

Regards

Mark

[Narcis]

Hi,
I think it is a "Belgian Navy" helmet, and somebody put a decal on it.
The Belgian gendarmerie had helmets, but without coat of arms from "province", because it was national/federal.
The Belgian police wore Adrian type helmets, before merging with the Gendarmerie around the year 2000.
Since then, both were demilitarized and have now only riot helmets.

[Greg Pickersgill]

I finally got around to contacting Walter Jacobs, Belgian helmet collector. He sent an interesting response -

"This is a Nato model of rural police of the 80’s.

They all have (wherever in Belgium) only one type of decal (there were 9 different provinces, at the time), a dark blue color, no rim. It has a nylon chin-strap with a plastic buckle (very poorly made) but not present on the helmet you show.

This helmet originally always has a plastic army liner of standard type marked ABL (also dated about the 80’s if I recall well), placed in the shell, before the helmets were issued.

I do not know where the shells have been made (no marking) they seem unfinished, due to the lack of rim and the strap is of poor quality and it originally has no liner.

They were intended for rural police (mostly for shooting practice, which occured very rarely !) so that these helmets can be found nearly mint, even unissued.

The early eighties were a period of political trouble, in Europe and also in Belgium. Rural police was due to play an extensive role, locally (similar to Indian scouts) in case of foreign invasion, in support of Stay-Behind organisations.

This never happened but the helmets can still be found. It probably is the ugliest Belgian helmet and it is not rare. I have a few and only one that was really used with the stamp of the city the rural policeman worked for."

-

All new to me, certainly.

Walter has finished work on a comprehensive book on Belgian helmets, but there seem to be a problem with, I think, copyediting and layout for printing. Anywone here with the relevant skills who can do some much-needed work - no pay but a free copy!

[Narcis]

Hi,
Did Walter Jacobs live in Belgium?
I never noticed that the rural police wore such helmets. Why should they? They were not militarized, like the Gendarmerie.
But ok so far.

One can check on Internet: casques de la police belge or Casques de la gendarmerie belge.

[Greg Pickersgill]

Walter Jacobs is Belgian. In his answer he says that these helmets were rarely used.

[Narcis]

Rural police in Belgium? "Police Communale" (City police) or "Gendarmerie" (National police)? Nothing else.

[Greg Pickersgill]

Rural police in Belgium? "Police Communale" (City police) or "Gendarmerie" (National police)? Nothing else.

Would you like to argue this out directly with Walter? If you PM me an email address I will forward it on to him. Perhaps some generally useful knowledge might come from it. I'm not engaging because I am neither Belgian nor a specialist collector of Belgian helmets. Walter is both.