Different M1A1 Carbine Carry Case

[painter777]

A M1A1 Carbine Case Type I've never seen before. No markings except handwritten ineligible name on it.
The case was with an M1A1 that spent time in New Zealand.

Any thoughts ?

Thx,
Charlie-Painter777

[Rescue190]

Interesting item. I have not ever seen before. Might be some specialty from Ausi's

John

[reneblacky]

What's the markings on the eagle snaps? If they have United Carr it would be Canadian, Carr Aust it would be Australian made.

[painter777]

I've sent him a message.
I'm hoping he replies back tonight.
He's in Texas, me in Michigan.

Appreciate your input, will post when I get a reply.

Thx Again,
Charlie-P777

[sweersz]

I've never seen one of those before either, very interesting. You could walk around with one of those in public and people would probably think you're a musician, haha. I like it a lot and greetings from a fellow Michigander as well! ;-)

[Rakkasan187]

Very interesting case..

I would guess this was rigger modified with the extra magazine pouches for either Paramarines or the 11th Airborne Division units..

Will have to look in my Paramarine and pacific airborne references...

Smitty

[Gwar]

The M1A1 carbine is modeled after a late production 1944 M1A1 Paratrooper model with a folding “low wood” walnut stock, type two barrel band, and includes the same adjustable sights which were actually introduced in 1944. The M1A1 includes a 15–round magazine and offers the same common features of the 1945 M1 model. I used to own one of these, quite nice !

[painter777]

Hated to have you guys on hold, but the owner was researching and the Holiday slowed this reply.

This case has 2 signatures on it, 1 inside, 1 outside the flap.
In his words:

"One of the names on the inside is "Barham". I can't decipher the rest in a manner that makes sense. On the outside is "___ Shepherd USMC". All the names are handwritten. The case was with an M1A1 that spent time in New Zealand."

I added:
Lot of Rigger work done in New Zealand and Australia when the 503d PIR arrived Dec 1942. Trained for 9 months. Jumped on Nadzab/Markum Valley Sep 5th 1943. While others went on to Guadalcanal.

I also added the questions posed by reneblacky:
What's the markings on the eagle snaps? If they have United Carr it would be Canadian, Carr Aust it would be Australian made.

Here I need to side track to give you a better understanding of where my thinking is heading.
I had a good friend in New Zealand named Mike O' Hagan from Wellington who passed away earlier this year he was a retired Detective. He spent his free time searching out the training camps and temporary bases the US set up to practice artillery and invasion tactics in the New Zealand terrain similar to areas held by the Japanese.
Mike was a hunter of history. I worked the computer and he worked the fields, libraries and the locals. Both of us being heavily addicted to the US M1 Carbine we were looking for an answer as to why he was able to find so many very early issue first serial number run Inland carbines in as issued condition, along with later updated versions. Question was: Why so many early ones ?
Our mission was to see if any M1A1's had been issued in time for use by The 503rd Parachute Infantry Regiment, Under Col Ken Kinsler. When they arrived Carbine production was still in the early stages. But taking in to account that these men trained for 9 months before this jump and the fact that this was the 'First Vertical Insertion' in the Pacific at Battalion strength. The pressure was on as this jump was done Literally under the Circling Overhead watchful eyes of Gen Mac. and the rest of the Brass Hats.
A test case to see if 'Vertical Insertion' could work after the 2 bad cases in the African/? jumps went wrong.

503 PIR Memorial:
503rd Parachute Regiment | Monument Australia

Posted on the forums many said there couldn't have been M1A1's supplied by the time of this jump. But we had found a priority list sent to the Chief of Ordnance for issuance of M1A1 Carbines. The list is dated 12 Nov 42. The 3/503 is second on the list. Even with Pacific shipping being a huge challenge during this early war period, ~9 months seems like plenty of time to get them there in time for the Nadzab operation. It wasn't Proof, but it didn't reject our thoughts. And we both felt Gen Mac had some pull.

Mike O' Hagan: "An unidentified U.S training camp in N.Z, just prior to Guadalcanal. I went there last summer and found some evidence, but the exact location is difficult to ascertain, it's within about 50 square klicks. For the rest of you guys, it's very close to Rotorua, New Zealand. The engineers built practice, bunkers, caves, holes, there for the G.I's to practice assaulting."

I had found- There was extensive press censorship of the American presence in New Zealand. The newspapers were not permitted to write anything about the build up or invasion until November 1942, and thereafter the news was strictly controlled.

Some built their camps near Rotorua and Western Highlands, the camp roads were later named Roosevelt after Eleanor Roosevelts surprise visit to see the troops and red cross. Along with other US related road names, republic, government...etc.
Many of those roads are still there. The camps were built up and lived in by locals after our forces left. Eleanor Roosevelt last visited these camps August ~29th 1943. These troops boarded to jump on Nadzab/Markum Valley Sep 5th 1943.
The Rotorua library has information about her visit along with pictures of the road signs on their Facebook page.

Eleanor Roosevelt visits Auckland | NZHistory, New Zealand history online
The camps - US Forces in New Zealand | NZHistory, New Zealand history online


Mike had found a few of the camps. He had even found some of the cement pads that Artillery had been mounted on. They were all pastures now. The mocked up caves used to practice assaults etc.

But to move on view these video links showing these troops. You'll have to stop, freeze, back up etc multiple times but you'll see some extended pocket (Modified) Griswold cases and see what I believe are fabricated leather pouches for the M1A1's. Also see many troopers loading the planes with no type of jump case.
I had noted somewhere about how The Quartermaster Corps took over large warehouses and areas of the wharves. Seen warehouses with thousands of parachutes hanging and others with rows and rows of stacked canvas, leather, straps along with 100's of sewing machines preparing for the Pacific battles to come.

Video links:

HD Stock Video Footage - U.S. Paratroopers are briefed with sand table in Nadzab, New Guinea.

HD Stock Video Footage - Allied paratroopers jump in Markham Valley, New Guinea.

The numbers:
5 September 1943 Nadzab, Markham Valley, New Guinea USA- 1700. Australia- 17 men (Most if not all had never jumped before), 503 PIR; 2/4 Aust Field Regt.
Operation- Alamo Seize Valley

So back to the Unusual M1A1 Case,
The owner had said: "I can't decipher the rest in a manner that makes sense. On the outside is "___ Shepherd USMC". All the names are handwritten."

But after closer inspection he said, "That's because I was thinking like an American. The "E. Barham" was easy enough. I decided maybe the second line of writing represented a place or something of military significance. A place that begins with a "Te". I looked into North African battles but came up empty. Then I thought (what should have been the obvious) what about New Zealand? Juggling the possible unidentifiable letters around, I found the New Zealand town of Te Awamutu. A match! And looking at list of NZ men entering the service in March 1942, I found Edwin George Barham, of . . . . Te Awamutu! "

I told him Te Awamutu was not far East of Rotorua and Western Highlands, not far from some of the secret practice/training camps.

He went on to add: " That the snaps were marked United Carr" His thoughts were "So, made in Canada, carried first by a New Zealander, then by a Marine." based in part by the info about the snap markings I shared from reneblacky.. Thx Rene .

Seller hit on a search for the New Zealander's signature with this finding:
Edwin George Barham, Well-Borer, Alexandra St. Te Awamutu. 1942 New Zealand WWII Ballot List.

I had some pictures of a list of Marin units that were there at this time but I can't find it.
Hopefully we'll be able to ID the Marine , last name "___ Shepherd that also signed this case.
Shouldn't be to hard !!



Sorry so long, But always Appreciate Opinions,

Charlie-Painter777

[reneblacky]

Looking at the United Carr snap male rear, it appears to me to be a US made type. Stand to be corrected.

[painter777]

I've been looking for it but haven't come across it yet.
Some where in one of the NZ links I'd read that the Commonwealth and US Quartermaster/Riggers had joint ventures making some of the items needed.

This case having no US stamp leaves me to believe it was site made. I need to look back thru those 2 videos for a time stamp as I know I seen some simple made leather cases that appeared to have possibly been used for the M1A1. Used to be able to look at those videos 1 frame at a time, but no longer. Case I seen Looked very much like a simple flapped over leather holster that any of us could put together in the garage. No snaps, no sewn straps.. etc. Looked about how well I can wrap a Christmas present, had I done so in leather.

For now I'd consider maker unknown. I'll assume supplies to make it came from the misc pile.

Charlie-Painter777