Is this banner real or fake? Before I buy.

**SeaOfFineThings** · 09-24-2021, 08:00 PM

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-24-2021 08:00 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Rakkasan187** · 09-25-2021, 05:38 PM

Have you done any research yourself?

We don't mind helping others, but since you are potentially purchasing this item, wouldn't it be wise to do your own research and then ask us for thoughts and opinions?

A paying membership here would also benefit the use of this website, instead of just coming on here and getting free advice..

It has taken many of us years to research TR era items and we didn't simply go on the internet and ask if something was real. We studied and read books.

Please and thank you also go a very long way here... Is this real or Fake before I buy is not a very pleasant topic title...

I'm not trying to be obtuse but you are delving into some areas that you have little to no knowledge on and although your eagerness to purchase items is commendable, it would be wise to again do your own research prior to coming to get the instant answer.

I have reservations about the banner, but I will leave it at that in order for you do conduct some research..

If you are unsuccessful in finding the answer then I will provide my reasoning, but you have all the information you need with the banner photos..

Smitty

**Vocht** · 09-25-2021, 06:03 PM

Smitty, If you are referring to the little factory tag. This factory was an aryanised cloth factory. Westdeutsch does not refer to the BRD in this case.

**SeaOfFineThings** · 09-25-2021, 06:56 PM

I have done research myself, I own 2 banners that have been authenticated and do fall in line with key identification features so I do not go into this blindly, it simply helps to get a sort of peer reviewed answer as well. You’re right in that I could’ve worded my top text much more respectfully, for that I apologize. I’d only posted this banner on here, which I typically never do since I know enough about banners, however I’d never seen that tag before. Hence my post, I do apologize if I came off very abrupt, I do appreciate what you guys do for the community and all help is greatly appreciated. I always come back to read previous forums to get answers to my questions anyways, I just couldn’t find any for this so I thought what best to post it and ask directly. I am looking to have a membership but I’m new to this specific forum so I’ll look deeper into it. Thank you for your input.

**Rakkasan187** · 09-25-2021, 09:57 PM

@Vocht,

Appreciate your input/feedback in regards to the makers tag..

It is the primary reason I have issues with the tag.. The banner itself looks to be alright, but again without better images and close up's of the roundel, swastika, stitching, fabric weave and given also the the images cannot be enlarged as they appear to be from non-hosted uploading source I can't offer a confirmation of authenticity.

@ SeaoFineThings..

Appreciate you input and response...

I will say that the manufactures tag is a variation of the known period TR tag from this maker that is known to have been on period flags and banners. This variation has appeared on TR flags but in my humble opinion these later tags with the globe and WEFA marking on the left side are a POST WAR tag. And yes I have seen these at auction houses on TR flags but I am again suspicious as we have never had any real confirmation that the WEFA makers tag was directly associated with the Third Reich era (1933-1945).

My mentor whom I trusted and gained much knowledge from over the years, Ben Weed (rest in peace my friend) would have most assuredly had an informed opinion in regards to this particular tag. I only know of one other WestDeutsche Fahnen Fabrik tag that was confirmed by Ben to have been on a period TR flag,, so until there is more substantial evidence that points to the company using a second makers tag during the TR period, I remain suspicious.

Others may have more evidence or proof, but for the moment I remain skeptical..

I have attached images of the two tags, the first on the white background is attached to a TR period signals flag and the second with the WEFA symbol on red is the unknown dated tag.. (pre or post 1945???)

Best regards, stay safe

Smitty

**Vocht** · 09-26-2021, 11:08 AM

Thank you for the insight. I understand your reservation. Just for the sake of discussion: why would the factory produce TR flags during the period of de-nazification postwar. Like most European factories who produced anything for the Germans, they "lost" their archives and tried to forget it as much as possible. Especially for this flag/cloth factory in question where the owner were forced to resign (being Jewish and all)

**SeaOfFineThings** · 09-26-2021, 02:21 PM

God bless, may Mr. Ben Weed Rest In Peace, thank you for your insight, it’s rare that I myself come for advice regarding banners since they make up the bulk of my collection, however it strikes me that I’d never seen that tag before. It makes me feel more comfortable knowing the tag has indeed existed during the TR however. I will do more research into the tag myself with that in mind but I take your word on it, as for the pictures, these are the only ones provided by the seller however it does look like a 2-piece construction from afar. I will see what I can find on “WEFA”, aside from that, I appreciate all the help given. Cheers!

**SeaOfFineThings** · 09-26-2021, 02:27 PM

After further research I found an official website for the company and they have have a dedicated 90 year history tab, as well as evidence that the words “WEFA” were indeed used since the 1930’s so possibly hinting at the potential of it being a ‘pre-war banner’?

Here’s the link itself to the website.

History | wefa

**Rakkasan187** · 09-26-2021, 04:58 PM

Good information everyone,,

@Vocht,

I guess I might not have been clear on what I thought was in question.. The company after it was taken from the Jewish owners continued to produce flags for the Third Reich and after the war the company still located in Bonn continued to produce flags and other textiles as it still does today.

What I was thinking was that the WEFA tag was post war produced and that was possibly sewn to a period TR banner, but it would seem that SeaOFineThings has found some more information in regards to the WEFA firm. This may be evidence that the tag was produced and used during the TR period and was actually used on period banners.

Unfortunately due to COVID my wife has not been able to visit her relatives in Germany, but this would have been a research project that she would have enthusiastically pursued. I have no doubt she would have gone to Bonn to the factory and made inquiries about the makers tag..

But we do have some more information to go by and continue the search..

Looking forward to what we may find out.. I could see a potential book/database reference with all the flag makers tags (original and fake) similar to to what the late Ben Weed spent many years on. I don't believe there is anything like that for researchers or collectors..

Best regards, stay safe

Smitty