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Need help to identify this flag.

Article about: Hi ! I found this flag in my parent's house, and, I remember my father says a long time ago that it was the flag floating on the local townhall. I live in Agen, south-west France, but, accor

  1. #1

    Default Need help to identify this flag.

    Hi !

    I found this flag in my parent's house, and, I remember my father says a long time ago that it was the flag floating on the local townhall. I live in Agen, south-west France, but, according to a WWII historian, there was no german troops "physically" at the townhall during german occupation.

    Because he died a few years ago, I can't know anymore on how he found it, and I don't know if it's an authentic one.

    About the N/169, I haven't foud anything about german regiment with this number, and according to wikipedia, german troops occupying Agen were 2000 guys from the 1st Armee (7. Panzer-Division and 327. Infanterie-Division) and also the LXXX. Armeekorps (15. Infanterie-Division; 708. Infanterie-Division; 715. Infanterie-Division; 344. Infanterie-Division) from 1942 to 1945.

    Could someone help me to identify it ? Maybe my father was wrong saying it comes from Agen... I don't know.

    Thanks
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Need help to identify this flag.   Need help to identify this flag.  


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  3. #2
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    I hope we find out for such a nice item !! G
    I'd rather be A "RaD Man than a Mad Man "

  4. #3
    MAP
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    It's an NSDAP party flag, so you won't find a military unit associated with it.

    I don't know much about the NSDAP organization but while I have not seen one like this, maybe the blue background indicates it was an Ortsgrupeen level (local / town level group)? As blue was the color for the Orts level. I have seen other Orts flags with just the blue piping around the unit patch.

    Happy for others to correct me as I'm out of my league.

    Some more photos will help. Close up photo of the edges, stitching, etc
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  5. #4
    RSW
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    I agree with MAP that it is an NSDAP party flag. I am not an expert on these and there were a staggering amount of variations when it came to the different party organizations, units within those organizations and their locations as expressed on these flags.

    The key is the panel (blue in this case), the color of lettering, numbering & trim (and color of fringe when present, that it appears this example lacks). The flag size is another bit of information that can help confirm things as all of these details were specified by order.

    The Orts level flags I've seen had the city name spelled out (or the city name and a number) on the panel, and the trim (or part of the trim) was Orts level light blue while the panel color itself was light brown. But in this case, the panel itself is a darker blue and that I have not seen in an Orts flag, and the city name is not present. But again, I am not an expert in these and there may be variants I have not yet seen or know of.

    My guess so far is this example may have some association to the SA Group Hansa/Hessen as their colors were "marine blue"* with white numbers. But hard to tell if the panel is really that shade of blue or if my computer monitor is distorting the color, or if perhaps the photos provided and the lighting are making it look differently? I am also unsure of what the letter N indicates. So I could be mistaken here.

    I considered this may perhaps be a Marine SA flag or even a French NSKK flag? But the Marine SA flags generally had an anchor emblem on the ID panel and the French NSKK flags are so rare (and maybe even nonexistent) that I found no examples to compare. So I look forward to any information anyone else may have. And the information I added may perhaps assist in further directions of research.

    In the meantime, a good source is the SA Collar Tab & Shoulder Board ID Guide; while it does not show flag ID panels, the colors used in the collar tabs and letters, numbers & sometimes trim are the same ones generally used on SA flag ID panels:

    SA Collar Tab & Shoulder Board Identification Gallery

    * Organisationsbuch der NSDAP 1937, Pages 388 & 389:
    Ley-Robert-Organisationsbuch-der-NSDAP : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
    The Organisationsbuch der NSDAP indicates Hansa/Hessen's color was marineblau (navy blue). However, yet another possibility for the flag is for SA Group Wartheland that used cornflower blue (per the SA Collar Tab gallery linked to above; unable to verify this in the Organisationsbuch der NSDAP as SA Group Wartheland did not exist when the 1937 edition I have access to was published, but that color seems perhaps a closer match to the flag example).

  6. #5
    MAP
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    I didn't have access to photos of my Orts example last night.

    Here are some very old photos. As RSW noted, these have a blue border with the town for that Orts gruppe. This blue background is probably for something else like he notes. But not something I am familiar with.

    Need help to identify this flag.

    Need help to identify this flag.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #6
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    Hi Lordvonhermann,

    I'm pretty sure that this is an SA flag. It's Standarte 169 (= Offenburg)...not far away from the french Stra├čbourg.

    The N should stand for Nachrichtensturm (=Signal Storm).

    The color of the patch is like this one from Deggendorf (Bavaria)

    Need help to identify this flag.

  8. #7

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    From Wim Saris... The flag is for 'GRUPPE SUDWEST', later taken over by Oberrhein. The embroidery is in the later style. The rest of the information he gave is very much in line with Harti.

    I don't know why Wim continues to give me this information to put on the forum, although it shows that he obviously still deeply cares for it - and still wants to share his wealth of knowledge and understanding of this subject.

  9. #8

    Default This is my new standarte

    Need help to identify this flag.

  10. #9

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    Can any one tell me what the opf means after the name of the town?

  11. #10

    Default

    East Prussia?
    Google the town recognizing that if in EP the town name may have changed, could be in Poland now.

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