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UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?

Article about: Hi guys, and thanks. I've been brave, and I decided to buy a UV light and test my flags. I found a 40 Watt, 120 cm long, Wood neon tube, and I've used it as the main light source keeping it

  1. #1
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    Default UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?

    Hi guys, and thanks.

    I've been brave, and I decided to buy a UV light and test my flags. I found a 40 Watt, 120 cm long, Wood neon tube, and I've used it as the main light source keeping it between 50 cm and 100 cm from the fabrics. Quite a strong source at that distance (two/three meters behind me, the paper of several books placed on a shelf was glowing more than my flags).

    TEST A: This is the list of the tested flags, to which I added a contemporary cotton white shirt, as a contrast reference:

    - a national party flag (80x260 cm, double-sided, white disk stitched with black swastica printed);
    - an nsdap pennant flag (measuring 14 inches across with 28 inches long);
    - a Reichskriegs flag (1.5 x 2.5 m) .

    TEST B: I've also compared their reaction to UV light, with the reaction of an old Italian flag which I know for sure to be authentic. This flag may be older, since it was in use already before the ww2 (note: for unknown - but interesting - reasons the Savoia royal family symbol has been removed from the central white part of the flag, probably after the ww2 - there are still signs of the stitching).


    RESULTS:

    TEST A: as you can see, I've encountered some moderate glow on all of the three German flags, with a slightly higher reaction from the national party flag (but still moderate if compared to the modern cotton shirt, which is shining on a totally different range of glow).

    TEST B: absolutely no reaction from the Italian flag. Also in here, the contemporary cotton shirt is glowing much more strongly and violently than all the older (or less old?) fabrics of the flags.


    I've read that some detergents created after WW2, may have left some UV-reactive materials used as whiteners on the washed fabric. But if like this, we had some glow also on the colored part of the flag. Hadn't we?


    While wondering if these flags are original or reproductions, I must mention a different detail falling on a different topic, but useful to (maybe) evaluate the age of one of the flags, that is the national party flag: a label reporting the size of the flag (in centimeters). No mention about the maker, and the typography may be too modern? I've never seen this kind of label before. Did you?


    NOTES.

    The flags have been photographed under a normal halogen lamp with the UV light still on, and under the UV light only.
    Picture details of the three flags (with no UV light) have been attached, to help any analysis.
    Being the pictures shot with my phone, white balances and the chromatic correspondences are totally wrong and inconsistent. To save some space and time, instead of shooting a full view of each flag, I've posted some pictures downloaded from the channels of the previous owners/sellers.


    Thank you very much,
    All the best.
    Steve.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?   UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

    UV testing a national party flag, an nsdap pennant, a Reichskriegs flag. Originals or repros?  

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  3. #2

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    I'm certainly no expert here but I have had items that glow slightly from washing. No big deal. Your flags look fine to me but the one with the little tag I've haven't seen either, thats the only one I would be suspect of. The fabric looks off also. Hope this helps. Vince

  4. #3
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    Hi Vincent, thank you very much for your feedback! Really appreciated.
    I've heard about a natural surfactant (saponin). It is used by collectors of ancient fabrics to wash the fabrics avoiding normal soaps that would leave some traces reacting, as you said, to UV light. I've never tried them, but it sounded interesting to me.

    I wish you (and everybody else) a happy new year!
    Steve.

    Steve.

  5. #4

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    Hi Vincent,

    You don't have anything to worry about with regards to your flags. Even besides the UV test, the flags all display period correct construction techniques and natural aging; the kriegsflagge also has markings on the header that identify it as a genuine example. As the other posters have said, if the flags were washed at any point with modern cleaning materials, these chemicals can leave a residue that will glow under blacklight, which is most likely what has happened here.

  6. #5
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    Hi,

    Good post mate.
    That reminds me to test my flag. I have a UV light but never used it to check anything in my collection.

    Cheers,

    danger

  7. #6

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    Nothing wrong with any of those flags.

    All period correct, construction and materials.

    FYI, I've found the burn test to be a better indicator of authenticity. If the flag has ever been washed - glowing under a blacklight is very probable.

    DONT WASH THE FLAGS!!!!

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    I agree with all the comments above in regards to authenticity as well as testing methods.

    UV light tests are not the only way to identify synthetic threads and I strongly agree with FloridaFlagGuy in regards to the thread burn test. More accurate when you can actually see the results of the burn and you should have no doubts as to what type of material (natural fibers vs synthetic).

    You don't need that much thread, a small snip of thread, and please if you have never done the burn test before, make sure you watch some videos on how to do it properly.. I have seen some folks light a hanging thread when it was still attached to the item, (flag, patch, etc.) and they have literally lost items due to the quick burn of the thread. Take a small pair of scissors and detach a very small amount of loose thread before lighting it on fire..

    I also agree not to wash or dry clean these items, even as tempting it may be to restore some color and remove some grime, more damage will be done (irreversible) at that.

    You have some fine looking flags there,, well done..

    Best regards, stay safe

    Smitty

  9. #8
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    Hi guys. Sincerely thanks to all of you. I beg your pardon for not replying directly to all of you (TarquiniusSuperbus, Danger, FloridaFlagGuy, and Rakkasan187), I don't want this thread may become boring for future readers. But really thank you very much for your precious support, and for your important opinion. It gave me one more good reason to keep on collecting. I'm waiting for two new pieces, that will arrive from the US between the end of this month and the next: a state service flag, and a podium banner. Once arrived I will shoot some new pics under UV and I will publish them here, to upgrade this thread.

    About the burning test: I will check the flags and if I will find a small thread emerging from the fabric, I will burn it and I will report the result!
    @Rakkasan187: must have been harsh for those guys burning their staff like that! Terrible.

    I wish you all a good new 2022.
    Steve.

  10. #9

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    Steve,

    It was unfortunate to witness "post burn test" the results and one has to wonder what the person was thinking when they lit the string on fire and it was still attached to the flag.. Apparently it went up rather quickly, like a fuse and it did scorch a good portion of the flag before it was extinguished.

    An inherent risk if someone uninformed about the proper way to conduct a burn test and in some cases very expensive and damaging consequences...

    We look forward to seeing you new acquisitions when they arrive..

    Post them separately in two different new topics for us to see.

    Best regards, stay safe

    Smitty

  11. #10

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    I guess you only make that mistake once Smitty.

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