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Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass

Article about: My dad recently picked up this cutlass. The family left Germany in the 1930s and the son then got drafted into the US Army in WW2. This piece came out of the son's estate. To me the scabbard

  1. #1

    Default Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass

    My dad recently picked up this cutlass. The family left Germany in the 1930s and the son then got drafted into the US Army in WW2. This piece came out of the son's estate. To me the scabbard looks to be the greenish of the 1930s. The Eickhorn logo is stamped and the tip of the squirrel's sword points towards the tip of the blade as I understand would be correct for Pre-WW2/WW2. However the action of the etching on the blade is toward the hilt, which I seem to understand is post war?

    Additionally, then there are two holes in the handle from a missing emblem. I presume this is from a missing DJ emblem, my dad thought the same is this correct? And if so a reputable dealer has sold my dad the emblem pictured, but I have my doubts as to authenticity.

    So inconclusion there are three questions:

    1) What era is the piece
    2) What emblem is appropriate
    3) Is the loose pictured emblem correct/period or a reproduction

    Thanks ABN
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass   Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass  

    Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass   Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass  

    Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass   Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass  

    Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass   Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass  


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  3. #2
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    The HF is an original pre 1945 DJS.
    I have seen many different etches on period ones, most pointing towards the tip, some dont.
    I see no problems with yours.

    I do see some with this stamped logo pointing towards the guard, that is a no go for me, as i have sen several with hangers stamped D.B.G.M. so Bundes instead of Reich.

    As you can see there are 2 holes in the grip, the emblem needs 2 pins

    The one your dad bought has the flat top as we see on the Eickhorn DJS HF, but the attached pin is not looking good, most likely a member badge with a newly soldered pin (needle catch removed) just to make up for the growing demand of removed badges, with pins they bring a way larger profit.....

    The originals are always silvered messing ones, not chrome nickel plated as the membership badges.

    Cheers
    Ger

  4. #3

    Default

    So the etch is good ..but the logo is not?
    Was the logo stamped post war ?

    Best Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  5. #4
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    Larry your not reading the post properly.

    i said its a nice original
    it has the stamped logo with sword of squirrel pointing towards the tip of the blade as it should.

    now read my reply again

    Ger

  6. #5

    Default

    Thank you for the thoughts

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote by gerrit View Post

    I do see some with this stamped logo pointing towards the guard, that is a no go for me, as i have seen several with hangers stamped D.B.G.M. so Bundes instead of Reich.
    What does this mean? what is the correct direction meaning the logo is pointing towards the guard? It depends how one understands it and how it appears on the ricasso...I read it correctly my friend
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  8. #7
    ?

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    Well Larry you asked:

    What does this mean? what is the correct direction meaning the logo is pointing towards the guard? It depends how one understands it and how it appears on the ricasso...I read it correctly my friend

    In the Eick logo the squirrel has a sword point with the tip of it to the ground.

    I mean that the tip of the sword of the squirrel should point towards the tip of the blade of the Hirschfänger.

    Normally with Eickhorn a stamped logo is pre-war and and etched logo is post-war.
    The etched logos are placed reversed and there the tip of the squirrels sword points towards the guard.

    So EVEN if the logo is stamped BUT points towards the guard, it is a postwar production.
    There are exceptions in brands though, like SS damast honour daggers have their etched logos points towards the guard.


    Hope that clearify's it.

    Best
    Ger
    Last edited by gerrit; 11-18-2021 at 08:41 AM.

  9. #8

    Default

    Sometimes there are misunderstandings in interpretations as with also time period from the mid 1990s until present.
    Much has changed on how certain procedures ...how the collector and researchers view them to make easier in simplification.

    We see see this for example with Chained SS daggers since the mid 1980s until present when Wittmann described 2 Chain types..and as time progressed so did the research which to make easier to discern ....now 4 production Chain types that Ralf Siegert had broken down.
    Yet those types had been there all along since the 30s ...but through analysis and study..minute differences separated these Chain types in 4 types.

    Just as Gerrit and Danny had also simplified the totally confusing Heer dagger and its components into an understandable categories.
    This thread has nothing to do with SS daggers and please bear with me everyone..as the point Im trying to make is that what we had learned in the past things do change over time....yet my interpretation and the understanding I read about an SS Rzm dagger 120/34 had the top of the logo facing the crossguard ..yet as seen below in a 1995 write up when Wittmann was still printing catalogs ...that the logo is read towards the blade tip !

    Help with this Hunting Forestry CutlassHelp with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass

    Is there wrong on this ..I dont think so ..but as Gerrit had explained above that it varied by the branches of service ...which " we as the collector have decided " ...how it should be read..and I was under the understanding that it was to be read as I have pointed out concerning the RZM SS number.

    So Yes I learned something today..that upon the collectors and researchers interpretation per branch of service as they deem it ...it is just another nugget of information to be added to a larger picture in this hobby.
    In the SS Realm..these logos are to be read accordingly as ..the forestry edged types have their own interpretation.
    A learning curve for sure for all of us.

    Best Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

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    "The facts dont change, just our understanding of them does"
    " I used to be indecisive but now I'm not quite sure "

  11. #10
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    Larry i came accross a perfect example of a high quality build Eickhorn Hirschfänger.
    Its a Deluxe Unterförster with deluxe fittings, handwork on the upperfitting, nice etch, but with the postwar etched logo.

    So if you see an Eickhorn having this etched logo facing towards the guard its a postwar production.

    Ger
    Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass
    Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass
    Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass
    Help with this Hunting Forestry Cutlass

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