Adlermilitaria - Top
Display your banner here
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.

Article about: I was wondering if anyone might be able to give a hint on how (or if it´s even possible) to research this Sterbebild. His war trail took him to Afrika, the Ostfront and finaly Finland where

  1. #1
    Jan
    Jan is online now
    ?

    Default Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.

    I was wondering if anyone might be able to give a hint on how (or if it´s even possible) to research this Sterbebild.

    His war trail took him to Afrika, the Ostfront and finaly Finland where he at the age of 23 he was laid to rest in the "Deutscher Soldatenfriedhof" in Helsinki.

    Best, Jan
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.   Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.  

    Last edited by Jan; 02-03-2022 at 10:16 PM.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.
    Join Date
    Always
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2

    Default

    This is him: Unteroffizier August Schwarz who was a Bordmechaniker on a He-111H-6 T9+CK (Werk Nr 7531) of 2.Staffel/Versuchsverband Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe which is a very interesting unit (just Google the name). Considering the date, it looks like a blue on blue as it is reported that his aircraft was shot down by Finnish Bw239 Buffalo fighters of LeR3.
    Flugzeugführer: Leutnant Bernhard Elder von Gräve
    Beobachter: Leutnant Dietrich Decker
    Bordmechaniker: Oberfeldwebel Georg Stadler
    Bordschützen: Obergefreiter Günther Berz
    + 2 passengers. Stadler and one of the passengers were wounded and the only survivors.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.  

  4. #3

    Default

    His 'Gefallen' card

    Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.

  5. #4

    Default

    *Edit - Hucks was faster on the draw.


    Hi Jan.


    Thank you for sharing this very interesting death card.


    I found two Casualty cards for him -

    Name: August Schwarz
    Birth date: 3 March 1920
    Birth Place: Planegg München
    Military Rank: Unteroffizer
    Military Unit: 2./Staffel Versuchsverband O.b.d.L (Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe). Kangsdorf bei Berlin
    Death date: 25 May 1943
    Death Place: Puntola (Finnland)

    Both Casualty cards say Gefallen = Killed in action and I did find some information that says the aircraft he was on was shot down by a Finnish fighter.

    Loss table -
    Luftwaffes havarier og flyuhell i Norge og Nord-Finland 01
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.   Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.  

    Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.  

  6. #5

    Default

    His unit information -

    2./Staffel Versuchsverband Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe = Second Squadron of the Experimental Unit of Luftwaffe High Command.

    I am not familiar with 2./Staffel Versuchsverband Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe, but it appears that they flew and tested captured aircraft.

    Versuchsverband O.b.d.L. -
    Versuchsverband O.b.d.L.

    Zirkus Rosarius (unit part of Versuchsverband O.b.d.L.) -
    Zirkus Rosarius - Wikipedia

    Captured fighter -
    EJ956 | Captured Wings Wiki | Fandom

    Versuchsverband O.b.d.L. is mentioned here flying seaplanes in Finnland -
    Rod's WarBirds

    Photo sources -
    EJ956 | Captured Wings Wiki | Fandom
    http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/typhoon.html


    Kind regards,

    Will.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz.  
    Attached Images Attached Images Sterbebild to Bordmonteur/Bordschütze Unteroffizier Gustl Schwartz. 

  7. #6
    Jan
    Jan is online now
    ?

    Thumbs up

    Thank you so much Will and Hucks. That was a lot more than I anticipated. I will visit his grave marker here in Helsinki when the snow melts and take some photos

    Best, Jan

  8. #7

    Default

    Hi Jan.

    I found a little more information.


    Hucks was right about it being a blue on blue and interestingly it mentions that the two passengers were Russian.

    Pilot - Leutnant Bernhard Elder von Gräve KIA 25 May, 1943; shot down by a Finnish fighter northwest of Ladoga. Remaining crew: Lt Dietrich Decker, Observer (KIA); Unteroffizier August Schwarz, Mech (KIA); Oberfeldwebel Georg Stadler, 2nd Mech (WIA) and Obergefreiter Günter Berz, Gunner (KIA). Source: SIG Norway. Added: This incident was a "friendly fire" incident, as the Germans & Fins, at this time, were both co-belligerents against the Russians. The attacker was a Finnish Air Force Brewster piloted by Captain Viekko Johannes Karu, who was unable to identify the aircraft as German. All but one of seven in the aircraft were killed, an Oberfeldwebel Stadler surviving.

    The grave location for the pilot is unknown, the following three are buried in the German War Cemetery. at Helsinki-Hietaniemi,
    Sec 39, Row 6: Lt Dietrich Ernst Decker, Gr 75; Ogefriter Günther Berz, Gr 81 and Unteroffizier August Schwarz, a Sonderführer, Gr 80. The remaining two unknown were Russians (D.Drury). Alternate spelling: Gräves.

    Kracker Luftwaffe Archive

  9. #8
    Jan
    Jan is online now
    ?

    Default

    Absolutely fantastic data. Thanks a lot Will!

    Best,

    Jan

  10. #9
    CSW
    CSW is offline
    ?

    Default

    Thank you everyone for this very interesting thread!

    This incident was mentioned by Hannu Valtonen in his 1997 book "Luftwaffen pohjoinen sivusta" (The Northern Flank of the Luftwaffe) on page 385. The events happened as written above, and in addition the Russian men on board were identified as spies Firsov (killed) and Menschikov (wounded). According to the text, two of the seven on board (Stadler and Menschikov) did indeed survive. One minor correction to the posts above: the location is not Puntola but Puntala, a place northeast of the town of Imatra in eastern Finland close to the modern Russian border.

    There is a post-war interview with Veikko Karu, the Finn who downed this aircraft, available on Youtube (Marskin Ritareita Sodassa ja Rauhassa - Veikko Karu). Here is my rough translation of his story on the incident as some people might find it interesting!

    "I myself happened to be in the air around midnight. I saw a black dot fly over a field – the weather was quite clear – and shouted in the radio that I had spotted an aircraft. I asked whether there were any friendlies in the area, but apparently none were up.

    I went down and indeed there was an aircraft there, carrying no visible markings on its black camouflage. I recognized it as a Heinkel 111, a German aircraft, but I knew the Soviets were also using those by that time. – – I fired a burst of tracer rounds under the aircraft: Immola airfield was close by, shining bright with all lights on, and I naturally tried to get the plane to land there. The aircraft, however, simply continued flying towards the Soviet border.

    I then received permission to shoot at the plane's engine. I shot a burst and set one of the engines on fire, but they still kept going. I then lit up the other engine. For the first time they now started turning back – at the same time I heard over the radio that it had indeed been a friendly plane! – – Around 10 to 20 kilometers from the airfield the plane exploded in the air. Some debris also hit my aircraft, but I was able to land at Immola. I got into a car and drove to a place where I jumped off and started running towards the crash site. Already from far away I could hear someone shouting 'Wasser, Wasser!' – – at that point the pilot and observer were still alive. They had been trying to drop Russian-speaking spies behind the enemy lines... but that was the end of their flight."
    One bizarre story goes that during the Continuation War of 1941-44 Captain Karu shot down one German who had been having an affair with his wife, however I don't know if there is any truth to that legend. A fascinating topic nonetheless.

    Cheers!

  11. #10
    Jan
    Jan is online now
    ?

    Default

    Hi guys,

    Thanks to the information supplied by Will and Hucks I was able to research this incident much further. The finnish pilot resposible for shooting down the German aircraft was Veikko Johannes Karu who a little bit eearlier had been attributed the Mannerheim Cross.

    Karu was interviewed about the incident before his death in 1991. Below is an translated excerpt from that interview:

    The Continuation War began with Fokker D.XXI for him. Then he was ordered to begin training night fighter pilots. That was when the friendly fire incident occurred. He was flying at night at about midnight when he spotted a black shape flying over a field. He asked on radio whether own aircraft were in their air. Negative was the response. He radioed “I’ll go after it.”

    He then pursued the black form and says that he recognized it as a He 111. He notes that also Soviets were known to use (captured) He 111s. He kept asking on the radio that are there friendlies in the air. “Negative”. He then radioed that hurry up, the frontline is approaching, what should I do. He asked for permission to shoot. He shot one engine on fire. The aircraft kept going on. Then he asked can he shoot the other engine. “Posotie”. Then he shot that too on fire and then the aircraft turned away from the enemy lines. Right at that moment he hear on the radio “It is friendly!”.

    Some 10 to 20 km before reaching the base the aircraft blew up in the air and debris hit Karu’s plane too. He flew back to base, he jumped into a car and drove to the crash site. He heard shouts “Wasser! Wasser!”. There were still two airmen alive. Afterwards Karu requested that he be informed at once when the Germans are buried. The Germans were buried in Helsinki and Karu acquired a wreath for the grave. The Germans were very adamant that Karu was not responsible, it was their own fault.

    When Fuhrer’s wreath was lowered, a gun salute was fired. Karu says that Germans fired only such salute when something very important was happening. “I was wondering that what is this ceremony. Then a German whispered it was my turn. When I lowered my wreath, didn’t those cursed Germans just fire a gun salute! I felt that I now should sink under the ground, so pissed up I was. When I got back, I asked the German that why the hell did they do that? The German responded “Don’t you realize that we did this to emphasize that shooting down the plane was not your fault.”


    FalkeEins - the Luftwaffe blog: The life and times of Finnish fighter ace Veikko Karu by Jukka Juutinen

    Best,

    Jan

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 09-07-2014, 07:00 PM
  2. 06-29-2014, 08:20 PM
  3. 02-03-2014, 04:40 AM
  4. 11-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  5. 10-06-2013, 07:10 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Griffin Militaria - Down
Display your banner here