Help Please: What is this Breast Eagle??

**Kilroy Was Here** · 08-16-2009, 08:10 AM

Hello, I have in my collection of relics, a breast eagle on black felt or wool? material.
It is in poor shape but to me looks maybe like an eagle a tank crew soldier would have worn. The 3 totenkopf skulls and other items in the wood box were all found in the same area, somewhere near Moscow is where the seller stated.

I would like to know a little more about this eagle, or should I say what is left of it.

Who in the German Army wore these type breast eagles?

There are also a few other items I do not know what they are. The 2 anchor "buttons" in lower left, and other red metal "button" looking item. Also there is the medal/award? with the rhunic type? design. Any help with these also, will be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Steve

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-16-2009 08:10 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

OKW · 08-16-2009, 08:34 AM

To my eye it looks like stuff that has been artifically aged, done to hide detail that wasn't there or pointers that its reproduction, sorry. The one naval button has a crown so is either pre ww2 german or russian. The other one appears to have its manufacturers details filed off, why? The east front, frozen meat medals weren't issued until after german forces had been driven back from moscow or its immediate area so how come a cache ends up near moscow. The medal itself wasn't worn unlike the ek1 or combat awards just the ribbon so again its unlikely that they would be near a combat area. There is also a party day badge, 1937, i believe, it wasn't official military wear like a decoration so why lug it all the way across russia only to throw it in a wood near moscow?

**Kilroy Was Here** · 08-16-2009, 09:06 AM

by OKW

To my eye it looks like stuff that has been artifically aged, done to hide detail that wasn't there or pointers that its reproduction, sorry. The one naval button has a crown so is either pre ww2 german or russian. The other one appears to have its manufacturers details filed off, why? The east front, frozen meat medals weren't issued until after german forces had been driven back from moscow or its immediate area so how come a cache ends up near moscow. The medal itself wasn't worn unlike the ek1 or combat awards just the ribbon so again its unlikely that they would be near a combat area. There is also a party day badge, 1937, i believe, it wasn't official military wear like a decoration so why lug it all the way across russia only to throw it in a wood near moscow?

You need to see the eye doctor.

If you also base your opinions on the location where these were recovered, I may be wrong that the location was near Moscow. The actual location where these were dug/recovered may have become lost in the/our translations. I do not speak Russian, and the seller does not speak English very well, but we try to understand each other as good as possible. He may have misunderstood what I was asking, or saying, or vise versa.

Wherever these items were found, I disagree with your observations. They are all 100% original to my eye.

Regards

**Adrian Stevenson** · 08-16-2009, 10:26 AM

Hi Steve, all look fine to me.

The medal you did not recognise is the "Ostvolk" award 2nd class without swords.

As to the location of the finds: they will not date to late 1941 and the Moscow offensive. Obviously only the digger will be able to confirm where exactly they were found.

Many, many times I have seen Imperial or political items found in frontline WW2 positions. By rights you would not expect to find them there. Soldiers took the oddest things with them as souvenirs or keepsakes. For example, a British A/B Vet I knew liberated an SA dagger in Italy.

Cheers, Ade.

OKW · 08-16-2009, 11:15 AM

I'm still not convinced, most of the items shown are heavily reproduced and to disguise this fact dunking them in acid and then finding them 'buried' is as good a method as any. i don't know any German veterans but if anyone one does i wonder what they would have to say regarding the issue of the east front winter medal and what the troops attitude to it was, because this medal appears to turn up in large quanities where ever items are dug, usually corroded. Were the troops throwing them away. Theres no requirement to wear them, just the ribbon. Rather than lug something around for which you had no use in a combat zone i would have thought they would have been sent home via feldpost. The entitlement to this award was restricted to those who had spent the first winter in Russia i believe. This must limit the numbers awarded, those to casualties were sent direct to NOK, so again allowing for the numbers involved how come they turn up so frequently.
The kriegsmarine button has definately had the makers details removed either with a file or angle grinder, why?

**Adrian Stevenson** · 08-16-2009, 11:33 AM

Hi, but please bear in mind medals were kept in stock in quantity by units QM's ready to be awarded. The medal was awarded long after the initial campaign.

As to why the KM button have had the loop and details filed off who knows? This is one of the little enigmas about ground dug stuff. Odd things turn up and it is really a head stratching and guessing game trying to work out why the heck something was done?

All part of the fun for me

Cheers, Ade.

**Kilroy Was Here** · 08-16-2009, 05:36 PM

by Adrian Stevenson

Hi Steve, all look fine to me.

The medal you did not recognise is the "Ostvolk" award 2nd class without swords.

As to the location of the finds: they will not date to late 1941 and the Moscow offensive. Obviously only the digger will be able to confirm where exactly they were found.

Many, many times I have seen Imperial or political items found in frontline WW2 positions. By rights you would not expect to find them there. Soldiers took the oddest things with them as souvenirs or keepsakes. For example, a British A/B Vet I knew liberated an SA dagger in Italy.

Cheers, Ade.

Hi Ade, thanks for the identification of the Ostfolk medal. I was not really wanting to see if all these items were real, I knew there were. Post got a little side tracked.

I wanted to know who wore this "type" breast eagle, thus the name of this post " Help Please: What is this Breast Eagle??

Any ideas Ade? is the breast eagle maybe from a tank crew member? It was purchased together with 1 of skulls, all the rank "pips" and the small round cockade.

Regards, Steve

**Zeller** · 08-16-2009, 07:21 PM

The breast eagle might have been an embroidered KM eagle...

As for the rest: the red button is not a button. I think it's a tinnie from the street signals serie. The central button should be german WW1 (or austro-hungarian, they look very similar and I have none to compare here at the moment). What else you need?