Navy Frogman Insignia

[ColinD]

Not something I know much about... any opinions? A mate asked me about it but I've no idea, I thought they were never issued but could be way wrong.
Any help much appreciated.
C

[Kohima]

Not for frogmen, rather the insigne of the Kleinkampfverbände der Kriegsmarine (small battle units), who operated midget submarines and remotely controlled explosive speed boats.

This example appears to be the Officers version, Grade 4, though I would not like to attest to its originality.
It certainly looks good, however...

[ColinD]

Thanks Kohima, I think it looks good too but as to being original I think it's a stretch

[GlennAgain]

I'd jump on that if the price was right...!

[BlackCat1982]

It isn't something I have a lot of experience of but the quality of production looks very good and not like a run of the mill repro.

[baerchen]

The insignia for Kleinkampfverbände are sadly heavily faked.
The different insignia were featured some time ago in the German International Militaria Magazin, including fakes and self-made ones during the war time. From what I remember , it was difficult to tell the difference.

If it is ok to post screenshots here, I can look for the issue of the magazine.

[baerchen]

Here are the screenshots. What you show is a Kampfabzeichen, it came in 3 levels (indicated by number of swords). There is also a Bewährungsabzeichen ( a single swordfish ).
There are many unknowns about this insignia, as mentioned.
What is known is that there are several manufactures, one is Tröltsch u.Hanselmann, which produced until the mid/50s. They produced so called template insignia (Mustervorlagen). There are trackable and traced insignia from marine soldiers though which looks slightly different so there were other manufacturers too.
In general, for many such insignia offered through dealers or the internet it is unclear of they have been made before May 1945 or after, if there is no proof and documented award from veterans.

The article is quite extensive (written in German), I have only attached pictures from originals and one fake for your insignia. The magazine issue is 204.

Originals







One known fake



Differences are in the number of teeth of the sawfish saw and the knot and how it is bound ( Hohenzollernknoten), although there are documented originals with huge differenecs too.
If you want an original, go for a documented award with picture of the awarded persons ( this exists.. )

EDIT> Not sure why the pictures are sideways, apologies...

[ColinD]

Thanks guys for all the opinions, much appreciated. Baerchen, many thanks for taking the trouble to provide the photos, very much appreciated