Tom Kendall Military Antiques - Army Crossguard Reference

[T Kendall]

Here are a couple of other thoughts to ponder over, I would even question if Holler made their type 1 guard because why go from making your own guard to using Pack type 3's for their 2nd guard, and did Wingen out of the four guards they used make the one guard that is attributed to them after first using two guards from another company (Pack) and then finishing with the generic B.

The attributed Wingen guard does seem to be unique but at the same time it does have a Pack look to it and with them previously using two Pack guards could Wingen have commissioned this specifically designed guard from Pack before switching to the cheaper to purchase generic B, just a thought. One other guard i noticed on your site is the Paul Weyersberg type 2, this i also think is a Pack type 3, you can spot this Pack type at a glance by the sharp angle of the top wing feather on the second row of the left wing, all the other features match up as well, the only difference on the Weyersberg is the hand enhancement, mainly on the eye, wreath and area inside the wreath around the swas.

I have to say the pictures on your site are first class which show all the details very clearly, it is these intricate details that cannot be duplicated accidentally that allows us to attribute these guards to specific companies. I am glad to see these amendments made to your excellent reference site.

Best Tomaz.

Tomaz
Regarding the Holler Type-1 and Wingen Type-1 - I am comfortable with the attribution that Holler and Wingen did make these guards - Why ? simple you do not see them on any thing else. The Weyersberg Type-2 is a Pack Type-3 but of course as you said with the beautiful Weyersberg Cyclops eye. Like the Holler Type-2 I am comfortable leaving both these as their current classification even though they did not produce the guard. Both have attributable unique enhancements and seen a sizable production run of pieces.

[T Kendall]

I agree with Tom that the Holler Type-2 is a Pack Type-3 Enhanced guard. But I think it is legitimate to call it "Type 2 - Höller" because the enhancement is typical for Höller and done very consistantly. Meaning that all Höller Type 2 guards practically have the exact same enhancement.

Danny

Danny
Here is Holler Type-2 I just picked up at the Max Show (although I owned it 10 years ago and foolishly traded it off) Dagger has the full compliment of Holler handwork a mint distributor marked blade and about 50% of the original lacquer clinging to the surfaces. How many Holler distributor marked army's have you seen ? Note the crossguard head enhancement - The acorns on the scabbard and pommel.

[T Kendall]

Here is the new crossguard - I am proud to say this is the 4th crossguard I have brought forth as a new Type to the army dagger collectors (self proclaimed of course )

[T Kendall]

Pic-2

[T Kendall]

To answer a question here are the 4 crossguards I have discovered and introduced over the years.

[gerrit]

Tom all very beautiful crossguards, and glad you share your knowledge and studies about these worldwide!
I see i have to find that Seilheimer, the other ones i have the WKC 2 even twice! i love that Weyerberg enhanced guard , with the lazy eye and the rims between the legs of the swastika!

the Höller 2 is an absolute stunner with all the features we like to see on the enhanced dagger!
Peter has exactly the same one with that same distributers mark: Militär Warenhaus Durbeck Wien IX
Its in our Heeresdolche book listed as dagger 37

Its a gem, and im looking for one myself, of course

Ger

[Tomaz]

Thank you for your response's to my queries Tom, much appreciated. Slightly dissapointed to hear that you have decided not to attribute the Holler type 2 and Weyersberg type 2 as Pack type 3's on your reference site, but its your site so i can respect your decision. Personally i like to call something for what it is, and the problem with not adding this information is that you will probably have this same discussion in years to come with new collectors, adding new information is the only way to advance collecting.

A final word on the Wingen guard, the reason it is not seen on any other producers daggers is because when something is commissioned for you it is made specifically for you, no one else, but this i admit is just a theory.

That is a very nice Holler you show Tom in post 32, when you say it has the full compliment of Holler handwork are you including the chest wave pattern seen on Peters that Ger showed or just the tool marks on the head neck and acorns as the chest pattern looks the same as mine. This is yet another variation/combination to the hand enhancement seen on Holler type 2's. I would also like to hear Ger's opinion on this. Thanks again Tom.

Best Tomaz.

[gerrit]

Tomaz in this case you have to magnify the pictures of the guard, the angle in which the picture is taken does hide the wave chest pattern, but imo it is there, look closely and you can see its not just straight lines but curves visible.

That Tom holds on to the Weyersberg en Höller type 2 is not more then fair, as it is this very handwork that distinguish them and stand out from the rest.
This handwork can be attributed to these very firms and no other, so i dont see any questioning in the future.

Best
Ger

[Tomaz]

I could say the same about the pattern on mine so we will have to agree to disagree on this one. We will also have to agree to disagree on attributing guards on microscopic or magnifying glass details as well, but it has been interesting and cheers for the reply.

Best Tomaz.

[Tomaz]

What I'm saying is Tom's resembles mine more than Peter's, what I'm also saying is this hand enhancing is "hit and miss" which is another reason not to attribute guards by hand enhancements.

Tomaz.