How to identify a North Africa MK2?

**Tommywal** · 10-02-2014, 07:21 PM

Evening all,
After doing some research into my granddads history during ww2 I've been trying to get hold of a mk2 that was used in the North Africa conflict as this is where he served. I've bought these two helmets at what I think were very reasonable prices but what I want to know is how can I tell if they are genuine North Africa types?

I'll describe them as best I can, helmet 'A' has definitely been painted tan over the original colour which looks like it might be black, it has a smooth finish and the inside of the rim has been painted (very messily), I can't make out the shell manufacturer only the date 1940, the liner is JCS&W 1940. This one I'm not really convinced about.

Helmet 'B' looks a little more promising, though its in worse condition. It's got a definite rough texture to it (feels like sandpaper). The inside of the shell still retains its original green paint though heavily pitted, again I can't make out the shell manufacturer just the date 1940, the liner is also difficult to make out, it appears to be a circle next to a 4 over the top of TTC then 1940.

If anyone can offer some advice I would be very grateful.

**Spitace41** · 10-02-2014, 07:26 PM

Hi. They both look like nice helmets, but if you want people to advise on the colour and whether or not they could have been used in North Africa, I think some more photos taken in natural light will be necessary. Cheers.

**Jerry B** · 10-02-2014, 07:26 PM

Tommi, you really need to improve your photography skills if you want opinions on when these helmets were painted and any thing else.

You mention one is painted over black, that would concern me.

TTC on a liner is usually for Teddy Toy Company. There is a pinned thread with shell and liner makers at the top of the helmet section.

**tinlid** · 10-02-2014, 07:37 PM

A bit tricky when it comes to helmets used in Africa, a lot of fakes.
Most helmets used in that theatre would have been Mk1*'s & Mk2's painted textured khaki green.
With age & wear the average person thinks these are desert cammo colours, but the khaki green was used in all theartres.
A desert cammo as such would have been over painted in theartre,& that's where the fakes start.
A sand colour cammo could also have been used in Italy or Malta, & just a collectable.
The helmet with black inside is probably a home front helmet just painted out side to look like a desert cammo maybe.Your other one looks like a nice khaki green painted army helmet, which could have been used in the desert.

**Tommywal** · 10-02-2014, 07:44 PM

Thanks guys. I can see my phone camera just isn't going to cut the mustard. I'll try and get some photos with a decent camera in better light. The smooth helmet I'm not very confident about the second one could be the real deal though, but as mentioned it could have been done anywhere at anytime.

**Jerry B** · 10-02-2014, 08:10 PM

Tommy, who did your granddad serve with? My dad was in N Africa with various units as he was signals and got moved a round a lot, mostly serving with RA units or HQ MELF or L of C units and later he served in Italy until wars end.

**Tommywal** · 10-02-2014, 08:20 PM

All I know at the moment was that he served with the Cameron's in the 51st Highlanders and that he was a sapper and an unofficial interpreter. He fought at El Alamane and Monty Casino and like your dad later went to Italy. I've just applied for his war records so I'm hoping that'll come back with some more detailed info such as a unit so I can try and trace his movements. All I have to go on is what my dad and aunt can remember of his talking about his experiences and some old photos and newspaper cuttings, but as my dad said like many I guess he didn't really talk about it much.

**Jerry B** · 10-02-2014, 08:36 PM

My dad was also very quiet about his wartime service, but I got his records which told me so much about where, when and with whom he had served.

My Dads records and other related items are in this thread.

SGT. L. F. Bond, 53rd Welsh Div TA Div Signals

**Tommywal** · 10-02-2014, 08:50 PM

That's really interesting, I'm hoping I'll get that sort of info but I didn't realise it would take that long! Incidentally my great grandfather and his brother both served in the Royal Welch in ww1 something else for me to get stuck into. I must admit this researching and collecting is getting quite addictive!

**Jerry B** · 10-02-2014, 09:10 PM

Apart from the lost and damaged records, those for the great war are easier to get, usually without any waiting time because if they exist you can just download them for a fee. Information on the Royal Welch Fusiliers can be quite easily obtained as they were a premier regiment with a great literary tradition. Also the battalion war diaries can be downloaded these days.