Mk II sporting a 1941 dated liner produced in China / Hong Kong ?

[Mark K]

I know probably of little interest to most but these are an extremely rare helmet and to my knowledge only a few examples exist with only a couple still sporting there original liners, chinstraps and war time paint.
The first thing that catches one's attention with this particular Mk II is that the liner was produced in Hong Kong in 1941 by the Chiap Hua manufacturing company other notable oddities such as the rim has been folded under on this particular helmet giving it the initial appearance from the exterior that it is a rimless helm this is referred to in collectors circles as a Dutch fold and or bend..
The helmet body is magnetic in nature which a friend whom has handled a ground dug example in Hong Kong has been able to confirm is correct as the remnants of the helmet he handled as well had the rolled under edge unfortunately the example was so deteriorated he was unable to help with a positive ID..
He does state..( "What little I know of Hong Kong Mk II"s is that they did have a rolled rim, and were magnetic the bodies were produced by the Chiap Hua Iron and Steel Works and that they used the Mk II standard lining and chin-strap, I suspect they may have been intended for civil defence purposes, although local defence forces may have worn them during the siege of Hong Kong The only example I have ever seen was an extremely rusted shell found in a grave there.
It was sent to the War Museum for identification, and I was able to tell them it was not a Canadian helmet, and therefore not likely a Canadian's grave".)
There is very little information and or technical data out there that I can find on these particular helms which of course makes positively identifying them a daunting task, I did find a little bit of data in regards to the manufacture and the type of wares they offered and operational time frame this of course does not help to identify the helmet but interesting all the same is this period advertisement circa 1941 from the company that goes to support that they did at the least produce a version of the Mk II as part of there wares line...
I am unable to find any period technical production information at this time but the search is on going, I have contacted Chiap hua Industries Ltd in hopes that they may be able to shed a little more light on the subject ( Chiap Hua as of yet has not replied to my queries in regards to any information that they may have in regards to these particular helmet bodies and or production details...)
The Assistant Curator of the Hong Kong Museum of Coastal Defence was contacted as well by the previous owner but unfortunately they were of little assistance but with that said did confirm that due to the war and high demand helmets were indeed produced at a local level to fill the gap in supply shortages...

Regards Mark K

[Jerry B]

I think this type of rim is known as a Dutch bend, previously mentioned by Aaron on more than one occasion if my memory is nay good

[Mark K]

Hi Jerry yes you are correct Aaron has mentioned the folded under design before and referred to it as a Dutch bend but I could not find the thread what caught my immediate attention is the period image above in post 1 # The Mk II that the soldier on the right is wearing is IMO a rimless Mk II and it would appear that the rim is quite thick giving the appearance that it may be folded over and as I can find no technical data to substantiate as to if this was a design characteristic adopted by Chiap Hue I thought I would ask for assistance and other opinions on said helmet shown above as I have stalled in my research...

Regards Mark

[tinlid]

I'm amazed you have found out as much as you have Mark, whatever it was used for, civilian/military use it has to be pretty rare. I hope you can find out more about it's use during WW2 or even after.

[Mark K]

Thank you Aaron there is very little information out there in regards to these Mk II's they were thought to have been used by troops manning the coastal defences around Hong Kong pre war and early war alike up till the Japanese invasion in Dec 1941 And it is speculated that they may even had found there way into the hands of some front line defence troops during the battle for Hong Kong this is only speculation of course as there is no direct evidence to back this theory up...An intresting helmet that I will continue to try and dig up more information on ...
Is it safe to say then Aaron that you do not recognize the helmet body on this particular Mk II...

Regards Mark

[tinlid]

I have seen plenty of helmets with this Dutch bend, mostly if not all are on the Mk2 No.2, non military use. The only thing that is different to an British helmet is the big flat head of the rivet securing the chin strap lug.

[Mark K]

Thank you for taking the time to look and for your assistance Aaron so at least there is one detail that sets it a side from other Mk II's that you have seen before as I could not find a comparable so that is encouraging...

Regards Mark

[FALLSCHIRMJAGER]

Hi Mark, a very unusual MKII you have there! I have found this image of Indian troops who were part of the Garrison in Hong Kong, but sadly I do not think the picture has enough detail to be of any help to you. Leon.

[Composite]

Mark, the Company advert is a good start...but as I'm finding over here it's often the ONLY thing there is. Of the loads of helmets made & sold to civilians I'd say less than 25% has an identifiable MAKER.....a few more have identifiable SELLERS (but these guys were usually simple middle-men...retailers)...and very few of these helmets have anything "official" written about them in archives. However, breakthroughs do happen....one day you might find yourself talking to a guy who's grandparents worked in the factory.........oh, and there'll be LOADS of "helpful" people trying to tell you what it definitely is.....and then a pic will appear...that's been online for years.....but you still won't know.........sometimes (just sometimes) I hate these bl**dy things!!!!! ;-)

Keep trying...good luck...and thanks for educating us further.

[tinlid]

Mark, the Dutch bend, & like I thought, all on home front used helmets. There are also plenty of Zuckerman helmets with this rim too, some like on the Mk2, on the outside, some on the inside.
I wonder if your helmet is magnetic?