Question about the "Totenkopfverbaende" Cuff Title and TK-Reiter-Standarte

[Manfred WA]

I saw a couple of group portraits on another forum of what was purported to be the 3. Schwadron of the brief lived (in name) SS-TK Reiter Standarte(n). I noticed what looked to be number cyphers on the shoulder boards of the men (I couldn't tell if the officer's had them too). Firstly, I'd like to ask what those numbers might have been, Standarte numbers? They looked like they many have been Arabic "1"s to me. If that was the case, wouldn't that have been Intruding on Oberbayern which would have been the 1. TK Standarte? The SS organizational system is still something I'm learning about and find a bit baffling.

With the exception of one man in the group photo who I noticed was wearing Sig Runes, they all seemed to wear TK tabs but I didn't notice any cuff titles. That left me wondering why none of them was wearing a "Totenkopfverbaende" cuff title and just who was allowed that cuff title. It's my understanding that the title means "Death's Head Units" and wouldn't they have been entitled to that cuff title by virtue of being a general TK unit or was that title reserved for Eicke's staff or some other group of functionaries? It seems to me though that I have noticed the title being worn on the black AL-SS uniforms along with the TK tab.

The only titles I've noticed associated with those early KL, with the exception of Dachau, (it seems they had almost a handful of cuff titles) are what I've long assumed were the Standarten titles associated with specific camps, Ostmark with Mauthausen, Oberbayern with Dachau, etc., and perhaps occupational type titles. I've long assumed that Ostmark, Oberbayern, etc., were merely the name of the regiment associated with the camp but inside the camp it was a different story even with different uniforms being worn in the beginning. Did the personnel of the camp Standarte also all perform some duty in the camp in addition to their military Standarte duties?

I would appreciate it if someone could shed a bit of light on the subject.

[drmessimer]

ManfredWA, your comment, “The SS organizational system is still something I'm learning about and find a bit baffling” speaks for many of us. Below is an excerpt from Taschen-Brockhaus zum Zeitschehen, Leipzig 1942, p. 32, that mentions the Totenkopfverbände. It might be of some use to you. On a broader scale, I have the 1937 edition of the Organisationsbuch der NSDSAP, that is the official description of the of the Party organization up to 1937. It is about 441 pages and the SS and its sub-units are discussed on pages 421-35. It also includes organizational diagrams, and color plates of uniforms. I can send you an HD digital copy if you want it. I will need your email address to send it as an attachment. Dwight

[drmessimer]

ManfredWD: Here is a link that has a rather extensive article on the SS-Totenkopfverbände, organization and history. It is pretty accurate. Dwight
SS-Totenkopfverbande - Wikipedia

[Manfred WA]

I found the book online. Thanks. I know a bit of German already and, of course, there's Google translate; but I need to find a good webpage or two to handle these Gothic or Suetterlin scripts. My mother was born in East Prussia and her teacher was always reprimanding her with, "Nein, nein Latin!" when it came to her hand writing back in the late Thirties or early Forties (or whenever it was she completed her last grade) so I don't know what gives with the scripts of these books.

[drmessimer]

ManfredWA: I am literate in German, but Sütterlin is my downfall. My mother-inlaw wrote out the upper- and lower-case alphabet for me over 60 years ago, and I might still have it. If I can find it, I will post it and hope that it is of some help to you. About all that I know about the Totenkopfverbände is that some units were assigned to guard the KZs and others fought alongside the Waffen-SS and the army. Good luck with your search. Dwight

[drmessimer]

ManfredWA: I did not find my mother-in-law's hand written alphabet but I did find this one. Hope it helps. Dwight

[Manfred WA]

Here's a site I found where you can convert between Suetterlin, Kurrent and Fraktur in both cursive and print.

Converting between old Germanic Print and Cursive in One Step Pretty cool.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The book of Charles Sydnor from 1977 and which has been updated treats some of the issues you raise.
There are also recent works in German on the Waffen SS which also deal with this topic, in turn.
I can cite you the titles, if you so wish.



Soldiers of Destruction
Soldiers of Destruction
by Charles W. Sydnor Jr. | May 21, 1990
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[Friedrich-Berthold]

There is an SS veterans organization history of the Totenkopf division in German, but there are also scholarly and excellent new studies on aspects
of all of this, to include a fine biography of Eicke himself, but it treats more his service in his formative years in the Pfalz.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Link zu diesem Datensatz DNB, Katalog der Deutschen Nationalbibliothek
Organisation Waffen-SS. Panzer-Division (3)
Andere Namen Waffen-SS. Panzer-Division Totenkopf
SS-Panzer-Division (3)
SS-Panzer-Division Totenkopf
Waffen-SS. Panzer-Grenadier-Division Totenkopf
Waffen-SS. Totenkopf-Division
Quelle Tessin Wehrmacht
Erläuterungen Definition: Okt. 1939 aufgestellt aus den SS-Totenkopfstandarten, mehrfach umbenannt
Zeit 1939-1945
Land Deutschland (XA-DE)
Geografischer Bezug Ort: Deutschland
Wirkungsraum: Deutschland
Oberbegriffe Beispiel für: Verband <Militär>
Beziehungen zu Organisationen Verwandter Begriff: Deutsches Reich. Schutzstaffel. Totenkopfverbände
Thematischer Bezug Partei
Systematik 8.4 Militär ; 8.2b Parteien, Politische Organisationen
Typ Organisation (kiz)
Thema in 23 Publikationen

[Saat in den Sturm]
Sėja audroje
Brunnegger, Herbert. - Panevėžys : Totas, 2019
Saat in den Sturm
Brunnegger, Herbert. - Graz : Ares Verlag, 2017, 6. Auflage
...






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