new thread idea

[Chad William]

Gents,

I would like to do a thread or group of threads about a subject that I can show examples of but can only offer my opinion about. It would be great to shed light on the question I will pose, but I think that we will need the help of W. Saris and possibly others to see if they have any documentation to shed light.
We all know that the buckle makers or at least some worked together in some capacity. To what extent we can only guess (hoping someone will have some documentation but its a long shot)
I have many buckles that can be broken down into the following categories which I believe apply to the question at hand
Category 1- maker marked at factory then having all marking ground off
Category 2 - maker marked at factory then having partial marking removed to leave GES GESCH
Category 3- maker marked at factory then having full or partial marks ground off then restamped to a new and different makers id numbers
Category 4- maker marked for 2 different companies at production
for clarity of the threads I think I will start a few so that they stay focused for future reading

[Gwar]

Nice Idea Chad but Wim. was banned some time ago, I know at least of one manufacturer of RAD buckles R.S.S. had the trademark diamond's removed at some point before being tabbed for Paulmann & Crone.. G

[kabl]

Gents,
Here is a HJ Buckle made by F. W. Assmann with maker marked at factory then having partial marking removed to leave GES GESCH and then with the early Paulmann &Crone (RZM KH28) Markung marked .

[Chad William]

Kabl, this is a great buckle that you have posted. I know for certain that it was originally an Assman marked buckle. I have an example marked identically to yours that the A (Assmann symbol) is still somewhat visible. I will attach pictures now. This buckle really expands upon this discussion and you may see what after i post.

[Chad William]

Here are the pics of the Assmann marked and then ground and remarked KH28 for Paulmann & Crone
the big question here is - Was Assmann making buckles for other firms and if so was it sell stock of buckles on hand. By this I mean that is it possible that another license holder had retail store orders but no buckles to ship them so they purchased overstock buckles form Assmann who ground their markings and rebranded them to the new makers mark? Or is it also possible that some manufacturers had license but never made buckles and just outsourced the buckles and still made a small proffit?

[Chad William]

[Chad William]

Here is a pic of an unground Assmann buckle with the same original marking

[Chad William]

I would like to show how this buckle can really expand this discussion- If you take note of the eagle on these buckles it is not the standard Assmann eagle. So is this showing us that Asmann may have had orders form other license holders to specially produce buckles for them ? The buckle which was stamped for Assman and ground off then marked for Paulmann & Crone is identical to the Paul Meybauer RZM 21 buckle
I will post pics of all the buckles for comparison

[Chad William]

This first buckle is the ground marking KH28 buckle - note that the diamond comes all the way over rope at bottom of rondel and the head shoe of eagle.

2nd buckle is standard Assmann eagle design, marked A Ges Gesch A&S - note that diamond stops before bottom of rope.

Third buckle is marked RZM 21 - same eagle design as first buckle

[Chad William]

Here are a few more pictures showing that the manufacturing of the KH28 and RZM 21 are the same and that the A&S buckle was made differently. The side flap cut out is shown in these pictures
Here is side profile shot of KH28 and RZM 21


here is side profile shot of A&S and KH28