Fake Mecklenburg-Strelitz Buckle Sold on eBay recently

[ww1czechlegion]

A fake Meckelenburg-Strelitz Buckle was sold recently on eBay USA. I will post photos from the eBay auction.

Someone paid what I thought was a fairly high price to have one of these as a "filler" for their collection. Or maybe they didn't know it was fake, and they thought they were getting a "really good" deal at $180. (Whoever won the auction may not realize it is a fake, or was happy with it as a "filler", as they posted positive feedback for the seller).

How I know it is a fake:
1.) The 3-vertical solder holes on the backside of a brass buckle are a dead-give-away on Imperial buckles with a brass or nickel-silver buckle frame.
2.) The clipped or "sheared" prongs that are "guillotined" in the same plane.
3.) The prongs should be brass.
4.) The roller pin sleeve that the prongs are attached to should be brass, and not the shiny color metal that they are on this buckle.
5.) The dot patern on the buckle medallion (disk) is not correct. This one has the dots cut incomplete at the borders of the various segments of the disk.

Hope this helps. The Mecklenburg-Strelitz & Mecklenburg-Schwerin buckles are some of the most highly reproduced Imperial German buckles.

Best Regards,

Alan

[Ben Evans]

Wow Alan $180, that is bad!!! The three solder points and prongs alone should have started alarm bells ringing

[harryamb2]

not everyone knows Ben that's the trouble.

[kirby]

EBay should let people report items as fakes or copies or deceptive descriptions. They care about a swastika but they don't care if a person is getting shafted.

[ww1czechlegion]

EBay should let people report items as fakes or copies or deceptive descriptions. They care about a swastika but they don't care if a person is getting shafted.

I agree Kirby!

I wrote the seller and explained the same points above as to how the buckle was a fake. They did add this so-called "disclaimer" below the auction description (because there were already bids on the item): "I'VE BEEN INFORMED BY AN EBAYER THIS BUCKLE COULD BE AN OLDER REPRODUCTION"

I told them it WAS a Reproduction. Not that it "could" be a reproduction.

Here's the auction page link: Pre WW1 WW1 Post WW1 German Imperial Mecklanburg Belt Buckle | eBay

[ww1czechlegion]

At the 2014 Show of Shows, I purchased two Mecklenburg buckles from one of the nicest collectors one could ever hope to deal with. The Mecklenburg-Schwerin buckle is good. I wanted to think that the Mecklenburg-Strelitz buckle was good as well. I showed it to 2-friends, and they convinced me to return it, which I did the next morning. The seller cheerfully allowed me to return it, saying that he didn't know, and that he didn't want to sell a fake, or for me to be stuck with a fake. What an outstanding gentleman!!!

The Mecklenburg-Strelitz buckle was artificially aged. The medallion/disk was an older, cast copy, with poor detail. When looking at the medallion with a loop, one could see that it was not good.

I'll post some photos of them.

Best Regards,

Alan




The Mecklenburg-Schwerin buckle I bought from him is good, and is in my collection.

[USNV5]

How about this one:

WW1 German Imperial Province Macklenburg Uniform Belt Buckle | eBay

Personally, I think it is a fake and I do have to say, that I am the one that bought it, I was not careful enough. *sigh* At least purchase price was better than the one sold by the fellow in New Hampshire.

[ww1czechlegion]

Hello,

I was watching that one too. I'll post photos of it on here for everyone's benefit, so we don't loose the eBay link after a while.

Here's what my personal thoughts are on this eBay seller from Latvia:

1.) He sells ground dug items, and sometimes he sells good ground dug buckles that are actually real WW1 era manufactured.
2.) He also sells fake buckles that I do not believe were ever ground dug. I believe the fake ones he sells are artificially aged with chemicals.
3.) He uses the wording "Close To Original" on his fake buckle listings. You will note that wording at the top of his auction page when the buckle is a fake one.
4.) He had a Saxon buckle recently that looked spooky close to an original. One thing on the backside gave it away entirely. He had it listed as "close to original". And it was.

On the auction listing you won, he used that same "close to original" wording at the top of his auction description page.

They did make real Mecklenburg-Schwerin buckles with the "diamond" or "x" shaped pattern in the various segment sections of the wappen medallion, instead of the more typically seen dot pattern.

One thing that throws me on this buckle is that the backside is very clean, and has almost a "paint brush strokes finish" to the backside from what I can see of his enlargeable photos. The front side looks considerable more aged (whether naturally, or artificially, I can't tell without having the buckle in hand, and examining it with a loupe). That being said, it spooked me enough to stay away from bidding, when combined with his "close to original" wording at the top of his auction page.

His best photo he provided (in terms of sharpness & details visible) was of the backside. His 2nd photo was fairly worthless, and the 1st closeup photo showing the front didn't show enough magnification for me.

If it is real, you got a bargain. If it is a copy, $83 is not bad for a filler piece in my personal opinion.

Best Regards,

Alan

[USNV5]

Alan, thanks, your thoughts (1 through 4 below) mirror mine exactly and I will put my thoughts below each.

Hello,


1.) He sells ground dug items, and sometimes he sells good ground dug buckles that are actually real WW1 era manufactured.

The above is what has kept me from bidding on any of the Imperial Russian buckles he and others have been selling. Too many show sign of a complete doctor job, but not all. It should have been a warning to me but I forgot to be careful on this one.

2.) He also sells fake buckles that I do not believe were ever ground dug. I believe the fake ones he sells are artificially aged with chemicals.

And, as I said above, he does an excellent job that requires you have the item in hand to actually tell what you have.

3.) He uses the wording "Close To Original" on his fake buckle listings. You will note that wording at the top of his auction page when the buckle is a fake one.

THAT is the dead giveaway but.... I didn't pay attention to it until after the auction closed. To be honest, I really should have noticed it but I didn't and I allowed myself to enter my top bid of $90.00. Just enough to win, and that surprised me, I thought it would go higher. Of course it didn't.

4.) He had a Saxon buckle recently that looked spooky close to an original. One thing on the backside gave it away entirely. He had it listed as "close to original". And it was.

That one I missed but it would have simply reinforced my doubts on the one I won. Ah, well.

On the auction listing you won, he used that same "close to original" wording at the top of his auction description page.

They did make real Mecklenburg-Schwerin buckles with the "diamond" or "x" shaped pattern in the various segment sections of the wappen medallion, instead of the more typically seen dot pattern.

One thing that throws me on this buckle is that the backside is very clean, and has almost a "paint brush strokes finish" to the backside from what I can see of his enlargeable photos. The front side looks considerable more aged (whether naturally, or artificially, I can't tell without having the buckle in hand, and examining it with a loupe). That being said, it spooked me enough to stay away from bidding, when combined with his "close to original" wording at the top of his auction page.

His best photo he provided (in terms of sharpness & details visible) was of the backside. His 2nd photo was fairly worthless, and the 1st closeup photo showing the front didn't show enough magnification for me.

If it is real, you got a bargain. If it is a copy, $83 is not bad for a filler piece in my personal opinion.

Best Regards,

Alan

This one showed no wear and tear that should have been on a dug example - no scratches from actual wear, and no dents and little if any evidence of the typical small damage to the roundel.

Well, I can keep a small amount of hope in the back of my mind, but I don't think that hope will be realized. I have no idea who is making these reproductions but they are at least better than the first one discussed in this thread. Or maybe just improvements, who knows. I did finally purchase the Nash book, but there are far too few originals shown. But, it is good on construction details and would have helped with this one.

I am also interested in hearing thoughts from others as well. Thanks again Alan, live and learn.

[Trajan]

Good to have discussions like this. I am trying to get a representative collection of WW1 buckles, that is, one of each, brass and steel, just out of my interest in the German Imperial Army. I have a reasonable group, most with support tags, both pre-1915 and post-1915 ones. I have been buying from UK auctions, but even they these days warn of fakes. The only two I am missing now are the Mecklenburg ones so I am keeping an eye out for them. I might possibly buy the reproduction ones for the time being on the basis that at least I will know they are fakes and they will complete my display for the time being!

Julian