Freikorps, Elisabeth TK

**Aldo** · 11-21-2018, 02:11 AM

I have obtained what I believe to be a rare Freikorps, Elisabeth sleeve Totenkopf. It is very large measuring approximately 7cm high by 5.5cm wide. It has crisp beautiful detail with an almost golden patina. The skull itself is very unique in that it has a large bulbous cranium with deep brows. I came across a period photograph circa 1919 showing what appears to be this type of skull on a Freikorps uniform sleeve. I hope the experts on this forum can confirm this for me. In the meantime consider this a photographic study of a rarely seen skull. If I'm wrong, then at least I felt like I hit the TK lottery for a little while.
Enjoy, Al

PHOTO CREDIT:Robin Lumsden

MY TOTENKOPF COLLECTION

**Chopperman** · 11-21-2018, 04:47 AM

I obviously can not comment on it's authenticity but I do hope it turns out to be
the real deal. It is the only one like it that I have ever seen.

**MAP** · 11-21-2018, 05:23 AM

Can't help but want to say you have a great collection!

**Aldo** · 11-21-2018, 03:42 PM

One more of the cased collection

**CBH** · 11-21-2018, 04:10 PM

I hope Mr. Lumsden will comment, if anyone will know the truth, it's him.
Great skull by the way.

**Aldo** · 11-24-2018, 06:05 AM

I posted this on another forum to see if could get any feedback and I was rudely told and I quote

"Sorry. Not even close. I'm not sure what this weird, distorted, ugly ape-like skull is or if it's even German. It certainly isn't Freikorps. If German, it could be some sort of comical carnival piece. I can't see it being German military."

Rudeness aside, the fellow was at least helpful in posting a picture of what a real one should look like. I'll accept that I was wrong in my initial assessment but I'll still keep my skull as a reminder of my folly. I must say that despite all infighting and members leaving this forum, I've never been treated rudely or had judgmental people remarking on my posts here like in the so called "Gentlemens club forum" what a laugh

Freikorps Elisabeth TK ? - Germany: Weimar Republic & Deutsche Freikorps - Gentleman's Military Interest Club

**Chopperman** · 11-24-2018, 06:53 AM

Thanks for posting the update. It's big of you to admit that it was a mistake.
I agree with your comments. I am a member over there but seldom post. IMO
this is still the the most friendly, well behaved forum going.

**bolewts58** · 01-20-2019, 03:51 AM

I guess I'm the "rude" person in question. Although, I don't see it that way. I didn't attack or insult you, which I would never do. I merely was direct and blunt about the piece in question, which I still feel is not military and quite bizarre. You have to admit that it's not even close in appearance to the sleeve skull of Freiwilligen-Kompanie Elisabeth, which in your original post on GMIC you seemed quite definitive about. It's taken me this long to respond because, while I agree that this forum is friendly, there is little of interest about Freikorps and Weimar German militaria, a subject I have researched and collected since the 1960s. So, I don't come on here much anymore.

In any event, if you felt slighted by my directness, I apologize. I wasn't out to insult or pick a fight. As always, I'm only interested in truth and accuracy.

**CBH** · 01-20-2019, 05:10 AM

Too bad it didn't turn out to be Freikorps , still think it stands a chance of being military, but these also could be masonic or similar.
Read the other thread and didn't find it too bad, maybe a little hard on the skull, but nothing personal.
I feel sometimes we take what people write as attack on us personally and not about the object in question.
This is a difficult hobby and we should try and stick together for the search for the truth of these strange things we collect.

**Aldo** · 01-20-2019, 07:12 AM

by CBH

Too bad it didn't turn out to be Freikorps , still think it stands a chance of being military, but these also could be masonic or similar.
Read the other thread and didn't find it too bad, maybe a little hard on the skull, but nothing personal.
I feel sometimes we take what people write as attack on us personally and not about the object in question.
This is a difficult hobby and we should try and stick together for the search for the truth of these strange things we collect.

Chris, you know how I am about determining the authenticity of my collection. I don't take offense if someone exposes an item as fake, in fact I'm grateful to be told the truth in order to weed out the junk. However, that is not what happened here. He did not attack me personally, but his response was rude nonetheless. You can give an opinion about an item without describing it as weird, ugly, distorted, bizzare, comical, apelike and such. It would have been sufficient to say that in your opinion the skull was not military related and posted the picture of what the real Elisabeth skull looked like.

I was not definitive at all about the piece. On the contrary, I acquired an unusual piece that was originally described as Freikorps or Wehrwolf in origin and I thought it looked similar to the image of the soldiers posted by Lumsden. I was simply asking for confirmation from experience collectors that's why I ventured to that other site. Once I saw the picture of what a real one looked like, I knew I was wrong and admitted it. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, I just expect a little civility and less holier than thou snarky comments.

I'd also like to add that I reached out to Robin Lumsden who I believe has a vast experience in these artifacts and asked him for his opinion. In short he described it as being unique but in his opinion military in nature, possibly Freikorps, Imperial era veterans, wehrwolf or something else from the 20' or 30's. Possibly from an ‘unofficial’ wall plaque, pennant, car badge or similar associated with one of these 1900 – 1930 military / paramilitary / veteran groups.
While not definitve, it is an opinion I value from an esteemed author , forum member, and colleague.