Kriegsflagge Real or Fake?

[drmessimer]

Yes, it is important to have the exact measurements for two reasons. It will give you an idea of the size of the naval vessel it was intended for. The bigger the ship, the bigger the flag.; and it can indicate whether the flag was sold for use aboard a non-naval vessel such as a small power boat or sail boat. I had a roughly 3x5 foot flag exactly like yours that I bought in Berlin 1969. I flew it on my 32-foot sloop. To help you below is a chart of flag sizes for the U.S. Navy. The sizes shown correspond roughly with the flag sizes and vessels for all the world's navies. Another thing The hoist--the end of the flag parallel to the mast, should have a short length of rope with a loop for hoisting and flying. It might have come off over time, but there should be some evidence that it was there. The Germans sewed the hoist into a roll that was hollow and the rope I described was run through it and was made fast at both ends. Dwight

[drmessimer]

There is an apparent problem with the size stamped on the flag, 5x28. That long and narrow ratio would be a pennant rather than a flag. And the ratio does not describe your flag, which appears to be almost square. It would be helpful if we had the actual measurements of the flag. I agree with Adrian and Danmark that it is a “memory flag” and not one that was flown on any of the ships that fought in the Battle of Jutland; it is much too small. Never-the-less, with the inscriptions written on it, it is a nice collector’s piece. The question is, which of the several ships does it represent? Dwight

[ShapedSteel]

There is an apparent problem with the size stamped on the flag, 5x28. That long and narrow ratio would be a pennant rather than a flag. And the ratio does not describe your flag, which appears to be almost square. It would be helpful if we had the actual measurements of the flag. I agree with Adrian and Danmark that it is a “memory flag” and not one that was flown on any of the ships that fought in the Battle of Jutland; it is much too small. Never-the-less, with the inscriptions written on it, it is a nice collector’s piece. The question is, which of the several ships does it represent? Dwight

Hello Dwight, sorry for my late response. Your help is much appreciated! It is definitely not the size of a pennant though, haha. I estimate that it is around 80 by 120 cm big.
I will measure it once I have time and space, it is quite a hassle with how fragile it is.
It also does have the rope at the bottom with a loop in it at the end.

Do you think it is an original flag from the WW1 or Weimar period?

Thank you again for your help!

[drmessimer]

I am sure it is original and is certainly from WWI, but it is much too small to have flown from any of the warships that were scuttled at Scapa Flow in 1919. It might have been flown from one of the ship’s auxiliary boats, since the size fits that category. It is possible that a sailor aboard one of the ships that was scuttled in 1919 took it from one of her small boats. Flags of that size are still flown from the Wasserschutzolizei boats in Berlin, and would have been used in naval auxiliary vessels of the same size in the navy. Dwight

This style was flown 1919-1922


This was flown 1923 to 1933

[ShapedSteel]

I am sure it is original and is certainly from WWI, but it is much too small to have flown from any of the warships that were scuttled at Scapa Flow in 1919. It might have been flown from one of the ship’s auxiliary boats, since the size fits that category. It is possible that a sailor aboard one of the ships that was scuttled in 1919 took it from one of her small boats. Flags of that size are still flown from the Wasserschutzolizei boats in Berlin, and would have been used in naval auxiliary vessels of the same size in the navy. Dwight

This style was flown 1919-1922


This was flown 1923 to 1933

Thank you for the info! I find it very interesting! I'm very happy to hear that it's from WW1!
I wonder if there are images of any German auxiliary vessels at Scapa Flow, I've not been able to find any so far.

I'll post the measurement's once I have measured the flag.

[ShapedSteel]

I forgot to send the measurements! I am very sorry for this late reply, but I hope that you're still willing to help me, Dwight?
I measured the flag which was a real pain to do because the side of the flag that's connected to the thicker piece with rope is at the brink of ripping in multiple areas.

The flag is around 135 by 97 cm.
It's one of my favorite pieces in my collection, so if anybody has more info to share about it it would be much appreciated.
I am also really curious if this flag was indeed used in those battles?

Looking forward to a reply,

Lucas

[drmessimer]

Lucas, it is a WWI Kaiserliche-Marine flag for a small boat, such as a gig or a launch. Both types are utility craft and not warships, though they were carried aboard warships. The fact that your flag is fragile attests to its age. My guess is that it might have been flown from one of the utility vessels that took the crewmen to shore after they scuttled the German ships at Scappa Flow in 1919. It is a very nice part of your collection, one that I would enjoy having in my collection. Dwight

[ShapedSteel]

Thank you for your response Dwight, it is much appreciated. I like the flag even more now!
Very interesting information, I guess I'll go hunting for some period pictures on the internet of boats that could've flown this Kriegsflagge.

Lucas

[ww1czechlegion]

Hello,

I am sorry to say that I have an opinion that this is not a WW1 era flag from studying the details and lack of color on the Eagle, specifically the lack of color and details on the Orb and the Sceptor held in the claws of the eagle. The flag is Not a modern replica. I believe it is from the WW2 era, or possibly even post-war, but again, certainly Not a modern replica.

I have attached a photo that I hope helps everyone. The photo is from the WAF Forum, posted by a known expert on WW1 Imperial Battle Flags, member "oldflagswanted". These flags have been discussed extensively on the WAF Forum.

Notice on the photo I have posted that WW1 Era mfg'd and Pre-WW2 manufactured Imperial German Battle flags have multi colors and far better details on both the Sceptor, and the Orb held in the claws of the eagle. Notice also the tail feather differences, and the black lines around the head of the eagle.

Please take time to click on the photo to supersize or enlarge it to see better details. Thank you.

Best Regards,

Alan

[ShapedSteel]

Hello,

I am sorry to say that I have an opinion that this is not a WW1 era flag from studying the details and lack of color on the Eagle, specifically the lack of color and details on the Orb and the Sceptor held in the claws of the eagle. The flag is Not a modern replica. I believe it is from the WW2 era, or possibly even post-war, but again, certainly Not a modern replica.

I have attached a photo that I hope helps everyone. The photo is from the WAF Forum, posted by a known expert on WW1 Imperial Battle Flags, member "oldflagswanted". These flags have been discussed extensively on the WAF Forum.

Notice on the photo I have posted that WW1 Era mfg'd and Pre-WW2 manufactured Imperial German Battle flags have multi colors and far better details on both the Sceptor, and the Orb held in the claws of the eagle. Notice also the tail feather differences, and the black lines around the head of the eagle.

Please take time to click on the photo to supersize or enlarge it to see better details. Thank you.

Best Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan, thank you for your response.
I'll take a hard good look at the two tomorrow.

But I do have a question and I hope that you could answer. Did all the Kriegsflagge from pre-ww2 and Ww1 have these features? I thought that these were also privately made.
Or did indeed every (Pre)Ww1 and pre-Ww2 have these features? I do not know all that much about the production of these so I'm rather interested.

Lucas