Steel helmet of the "Jungdeutscher Orden", authentic?
Article about: Hello gentleman, i am new to this forum and this is my first post. So I hope this is the right group for my question. Recently I saw this steel helmet of the "Jungdeutscher Orden"
Steel helmet of the "Jungdeutscher Orden", authentic?
Hello gentleman,
i am new to this forum and this is my first post. So I hope this is the right group for my question.
Recently I saw this steel helmet of the "Jungdeutscher Orden" (Young German Order) with the following description:
"Stahlhelm M1918 of a member of the Young German Order: Manufactured in the 1920s, privately painted in field gray with a black-white-red national shield painted on the left and a privately painted emblem of the Young German Order on the right. Interior fittings M27 with leather ring, three cotter pins with "flat heads" and two-part chinstrap with snap hooks. Signs of age and wear. Condition: II"
Some things about this steel helmet seem suspicious to me. The first thing to notice are the ventilation bolts, I've never seen such a shape before. Usually there is a wide ring at the bottom of the bolts and the opening of these bolts also looks strange. The edges of the helmet also appear wavy, although they are usually precisely straight on German steel helmets. In addition, there are bubbles around the ventilation bolts and a strangely indented area is visible under the right bolt. So I wonder if this steel helmet is made of steel at all and whether it can really be an M18.
Furthermore, I wonder whether this helmet can actually come from a member of the Young German Order. The Young German Order was founded in March 1920 in Kassel by Oberleutnant a. D. Artur Mahraun and emerged from the Freikorps "Offiziers-Kompanie-Cassel" (Officer's Company Cassel). It was dissolved on July 3, 1933.
I know that the steel helmets from World War I continued to be used by the Freikorps and mostly a new color was applied with a brush. From 1921 to 1932, the corresponding country coats of arms were worn on the left side of the helmets, which were painted on by hand. From 1933 the field-gray paint became a little darker and a uniform coat of arms in black, white and red was painted on the left side of the steel helmets by hand. These coats of arms were only worn until the spring of 1934.
The leather lining M27 was introduced in 1927 and the M31 lining, with an aluminum band and 8 instead of 6 leather tongues, was introduced in 1931.
That would mean that since the coat of arms introduced in 1933 is on the left side of this steel helmet and the Young German Order was dissolved on July 3, 1933, the helmet would have to come from this short period of time. Furthermore, the original inner lining would have to be exchanged for the M27 lining (I'm not sure if the split pins belong to the M27 lining), without an upgrade to the M31 lining.
What is your opinion, can it really be genuine or is it a fake or a modern restoration project by a collector?
First off, It is NOT a military helmet shell - just in the style of an M18. The "young Germans" were probably too young to fit an actual army issue helmet and more than likely this is a small size and more like the "children's helmet" I own - a later one made during the Nazi era to give the kiddies a sense of 'belonging', and instill patriotism...
It is a nice example - but not military issue, just paramilitary.
Regards, Dan ( and welcome aboard )
" I'm putting off procrastination until next week "
Looks like a commercially available droop bill style helmet and potentially made by RZM. These were more commonly issued to political organisations. Would like to see more closeups of the entire helmet, particularly the hand painted decals and any markings.
I’m sure Jim G or Donald L, could shed some more light in this one.
Many thanks for your help gentleman. Nice to have such a great and experienced community.
The helmet actually looks like a droop bill helmet and since the Young German Order as a political organization supported the government of the Weimar Republic, this would fit very well.
Here are some close-ups of the helmet. Apart from the handwritten marking "Rö. II." on the right inside of the helmet, I unfortunately couldn't see any markings.
Since this helmet is far outside of my collection area, can someone tell me whether these helmets are worth collecting and if it is genuine, how much it is worth (to make a fair offer)?
This particular type of helmet, which is relatively scare, is outside of my collecting area too but I can say it is definitely worth collecting if it is original condition. The paint looks period to me but unsure on the hand painted decals.
We do not offer appraisals on this site, and as these are scarce, examples of what they go for might be hard to find.
Hopefully, a member with more experience in that period will come along to shed more light on it.
Hand painted decals are very difficult to give opinions on based only from photos. I'm not seeing any obvious red flags, but still, as Andy notes, someone with more experience handling these is needed.
The additional photos, while closer looked to be just cropped examples of the original and are not that clear unfortunately.
"Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated
My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them
"Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)
Sorry for asking about the value, I know it was a bit impolite, just can't judge it at all. Regarding the photos, unfortunately I only have the ones from the dealer. I was hoping that the resolution would be better if I took a picture of the closest setting. I am not very familiar with the technology yet...
Steel helmet of the "Jungdeutscher Orden", authentic?
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