Found - Imperial Russian Coat of arms Pin at Gun show

**nbushyager** · 02-10-2018, 06:14 PM

I was at my local gun show this morning and found this in the bottom of a bag. Thoughts? The clasp or pin looks pretty old to me.
Looks to be made of pewter, but I'm not sure.It's probably 1.5 inches x 1.5 inches

Found - Imperial Russian Coat of arms Pin at Gun show

Thanks,
Nick

**nbushyager** · 02-10-2018, 09:38 PM

I found a pin that appears to be of a similar construction process. The only info is a "vintage pin and being sold from Bulgaria". Not sure if this helps anyone put a date or reason for this pin.

**CBH** · 02-10-2018, 10:39 PM

Looks to me like an early British "Kings Dragoon Guard" collar turned into a pin.
It's a place to start.

**nbushyager** · 02-10-2018, 11:12 PM

Thanks Chris. I am going to change the title now that I know its British. Is there a way to do that? I can't seem to.

**CBH** · 02-11-2018, 01:11 AM

No problem, I have a similar collar that had confused me.
Mine still has the British style lugs.

**nbushyager** · 02-11-2018, 05:43 PM

Any ideas of the age of the clasps? You could split the two pieces out to make the pin more secure. It looks turn of the century to me, but would like to hear others opinions.

Thanks,
Nick

**CBH** · 02-11-2018, 06:15 PM

Here is mine. It has standard British hardware.

**Watchdog** · 02-11-2018, 07:07 PM

by CBH

Looks to me like an early British "Kings Dragoon Guard" collar turned into a pin.
It's a place to start.

The heraldic device is in fact the arms of the Emperor Franz Joseph 1 of Austria which has been worn as a cap badge by The Kings (later Queens) Dragoon Guards since it was granted to 1st KDG in 1896 (the later regiment is an amalgam of 1st KDG and 2nd Dragoons (The Queens Bays) in 1959). However, this is not a British piece, the metal, construction, level of detail are all wrong for that. I would suggest that this is a civilian souvenir pin most likely of Austrian origin. The collar badge of the QDG is a smaller version of the cap badge of the late 2nd Dragoons (The Queens Bays) which is a wreath containing the word "BAYS" with a crown on top.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Mark

PS This kind of thing is not unusual in British military heraldry. The 14th Hussars (later the 14/20 Kings Hussars, today amalgamated with The Royal Hussars to become The Kings Royal Hussars) wore/wear the Prussian eagle and The Royal Scots Dragoons wear a French imperial eagle all for historical reasons and there are other examples.

**CBH** · 02-11-2018, 07:28 PM

Thanks Mark that explains it , it was the hardware on mine that led me to finding out it was British.
I never considered the historical context of the symbol, it was very silly of me.
Thanks for putting it right.

**Watchdog** · 02-11-2018, 09:01 PM

Not silly at all Chris. The symbology and heraldry is one thing that will point in a particular direction but the materials and construction as with all the stuff us lot tend to hoard, is usually the telling factor. British badges are particularly difficult unless one is used to them in all aspects. There are many red herrings to catch!

Regards

Mark